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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Traditional Rifle Winter Project (Read 8017 times)
RSW
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Re: Traditional Rifle Winter Project
Reply #15 - Nov 21st, 2018 at 8:33pm
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Dales
Your Borchardt would indeed qualify for the traditional class under ASSRA, ISSA and WSU rules. Except for a few details, the requirements for traditional Schuetzen rifles are the same for all three organizations. A copy of the ISSA traditional rules can be accessed at:
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Bottom line for Schuetzen traditional class is your rifle, sights, etc. must be pre-1917 or reproduction thereof. Exception is made for scopes with external elevation and windage adjustments such as Lyman and Unertl. Adding your own double set triggers is perfectly acceptable as long as they are not electronic  Wink
  

Randy W
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There are indeed two Americas. Simply put, it is not the haves and have nots. The two Americans are in reality divided into those who do and those who don't.
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Longdistance1
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Re: Traditional Rifle Winter Project
Reply #16 - Nov 21st, 2018 at 11:31pm
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Dales,  go with the Borchardt, very good stock attachment, fast lock time, military models had a horrible trigger but for a hundred bucks BRC can fix your breechblock  to a 2lb crisp trigger or less and you still have an automatic safety.  Best 100 dollar bill you will ever spend.
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frnkeore
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Re: Traditional Rifle Winter Project
Reply #17 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 2:08am
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Like Jerry, I'd suggest the Borchardt, in 33/47 with a heavy 14 twist barrel.

The lock time can be sped up with a little heavier spring and a Titanium or, composite (tool steel sear threaded to a aluminum body, with a steel FP) and a #4 x 40 sear adjustment screw. You can also shorten the striker fall that way. The striker isn't hard to make. 

The stock trigger can be reworked, very easily to <1/2 - 1 lb pull, in conjunction with a new striker as described above. Single triggers also have faster lock times than SS or DST. 

As for butt stocks, I use a original style, copy of a Sharps Mid Range that is a excellent BR stock.

Frank
  

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Dales
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Re: Traditional Rifle Winter Project
Reply #18 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 8:42am
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Thanks for the help Borchardt it will be.

Would a 33-30 Remington (32-30 Remington necked up) work and make traditional class ?

Dale


  
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watchthewind
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Re: Traditional Rifle Winter Project
Reply #19 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 9:22am
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I interpret the rules to not allow cartridges in existence after the 1917 cut off date.
Was a 33-30 developed/used prior to the date?
"Currently there are no restrictions placed upon any equipment other than the rifles, sights, cartridges, and loading techniques."
Here is a link to the rule book;
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I hope this clarifies and perhaps the ASSRA Schuetzenmeister will add info.
Take Care,
Scott
  

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Dales
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Re: Traditional Rifle Winter Project
Reply #20 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 10:38am
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Scott
I have read the rules and still not sure. The 32-30 Remington came out in 1884 , did anyone rebore to 33 caliber , no idea .
I just like smaller cases and I allready have a 33-47 and just like to try something different . But still want to stay with traditional rules without question.
Dale
  
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RSW
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Re: Traditional Rifle Winter Project
Reply #21 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 10:42am
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Dales
The .33-47 to which Frank was referring is the .32-40 expanded to fit a .33 cal (.338?) chamber.
  

Randy W
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OLD TUCK
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Re: Traditional Rifle Winter Project
Reply #22 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 10:54am
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To all, I wanted to suggest the Borchardt for the reasons mentioned. But it was already done and I agree with all of them. Now, Al Story has just recently decided to add .33 caliber to his Barrel manufacturing. It would maybe worth your while to look at the results posted here with bench groups he has posted with BRC barrels. I have one friend who already built one rifle with a BRC action in 32-40 and likes it. He wanted to do another in 33-40 and inquired. The response was we are not doing .33 caliber. Ken Lewis poked Al and the end result it Mr. Story decided he would add .33 Caliber. Now, if you want the trigger improved there is your option to send whatever Borchardt Action you come up with to have the Trigger work done and buy a Barrel at the same time. Ken Lewis would be the guy to contact about getting the Barrel fitted and Chambered. HTH, Regards, FITZ. OLD TUCK Smiley
  
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Dales
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Re: Traditional Rifle Winter Project
Reply #23 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 11:09am
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Oldtuck
Thanks for your reply . As far as barreling and action work I get as much enjoyment out of doing this work as  I do out of shooting them . This rifle will be my winter project to keep my mind from rusting .
Dale
  
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JLouis
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Re: Traditional Rifle Winter Project
Reply #24 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 11:29am
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That is indeed good news Fitz based on my own past experience with the 33-47 it is currently the best choice out there especially for a new individual wanting to get into the sport of Schuetzen competition. It is extremely accurate, not as finicky as others to get to shoot and very user friendly. Example it was recommended to a new shooter in our group by Jerry Hartwig and myself. His first practice outing with our group he shot a 250. He followed it up the very next day and at his first match with another 250 and then went on to shoot even more. Pretty much unheard of results for a new shooter thus the comment of it being very user friendly, extremely accurate and easy to get to shoot and why it was recommended. The rifle a Model 52 CPA as I recall or possibly the Pope style either way it was a very rewarding experience while also choosing to use a Traditional rifle for a first time competitor. 

JLouis
  

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JLouis
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Re: Traditional Rifle Winter Project
Reply #25 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 11:50am
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Sounds not only as being a fun and very enjoyable winter project but also a very rewarding one when all is said and done Dale's and I do wish you the very best of times while building it. Even more so in taking it out and accomplishing the goals you are now setting for yourself and may it also become a very enjoyable and rewarding experience for you as well. 

JLouis
  

" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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Schuetzendave
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Re: Traditional Rifle Winter Project
Reply #26 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 2:37pm
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I believe John is talking about the through bolt on a CPA which only attaches to one tang.

Totally different on a 1885 High Wall where they work exceptionally well (since they do not have sideways torque since they are attached to both tangs).


  
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Re: Traditional Rifle Winter Project
Reply #27 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 3:07pm
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If you have your heart set on 33 cal, I think your stuck with the 33/47 as that is the only traditional chambering, that I know of for 33 cal's.

What I have used for my 33 is a 357 Max case. The 357 Max case, is a dead ringer for the 38 XL but, even though my Borchardt qualifys in every other way I wouldn't try to use it as a small groove 38 XL in Traditional.

That said, if the ASSRA and ISSA has ruled that the CPA 32/20 and the guy's that call their .321 groove, 32/30's traditional are legal, you should be able to say that a 33 cal is just a large groove 32 cal and use the Max case just as the 321 groove 32/30's do. Some original 32 cals were close to 33 cal.

But, I don't know that there has ever been a ruling on what the tolerance is on groove diameter in the Traditional class. Maybe both organizations should do that.

If your open to 30 cal, they can be made on the 32/20 and 357 Max case (32/30). I shot a .308 groove, 32/35 (.400 case head, 1 7/8 long) for 10 years with great success. They are all .312 groove cals. There is also a original 28 cal on the 25/20SS case.

Frank
  

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Re: Traditional Rifle Winter Project
Reply #28 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 5:15pm
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Ken my 33-47 Breisen was a 15 LH Twist best shooting rifle I have owned to date bullet was a 234gr. Mos.
  

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Re: Traditional Rifle Winter Project
Reply #29 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 5:28pm
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Dave not sure what mean being only attached to one tang. The CPA's I have worked on are attached to both the top tang and the lower tang?
  

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