Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) What can one expect from a 1:18 in a .38-55? (Read 4235 times)
BillOregon
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 191
Location: Sweetwater, Texas
Joined: Jul 28th, 2006
What can one expect from a 1:18 in a .38-55?
Nov 18th, 2018 at 10:39am
Print Post  
Thinking this twist rate is too slow for optimum results with the heavier bullets for long range work. What might be the heaviest, most aerodynamic mold choice to stretch the capabilities to the maximum?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16014
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: What can one expect from a 1:18 in a .38-55?
Reply #1 - Nov 18th, 2018 at 11:32am
Print Post  
Bill, Marlin used 1:20" for their Ballard and Marlin repeater rifles in .38-55, and they shoot well with 250 gr. bullets at longer distances.
Custom makers like Schoyen and Pope used something around 1:15" as their barrels were designed to use heavier bullets around 300 grs.
I think the 1:18" would be great for longer distances with a 250-255 gr. bullet, and even for a heavier 275 gr. bullet.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BillOregon
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 191
Location: Sweetwater, Texas
Joined: Jul 28th, 2006
Re: What can one expect from a 1:18 in a .38-55?
Reply #2 - Nov 18th, 2018 at 12:20pm
Print Post  
Thanks Vall. Back when Marlin was making the Cowboy in .38-55 with the .379 bore, I took a suggestion from the late Ken Waters and had Dave Corbin build me a set of swaging dies to make .379 jacketed bullets, which I briefly sold under the name of the Boer Bullet Company. Ken even gave these a brief writeup in Handloader, bless his heart. These were 220-grain jacketed softpoints and they shot brilliantly out of the Marlin barrel. I did not pay attention to the twist at the time, because I was thinking more about smokeless hunting loads than lobbing heaver greasers way out yonder with black powder. I can imagine a 1:16 or faster barrel would be better suited for the heavies. Hope all is well with you, friend.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16014
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: What can one expect from a 1:18 in a .38-55?
Reply #3 - Nov 18th, 2018 at 12:40pm
Print Post  
Of course the .38-55 is not considered a great choice for really long range shooting, but I've had good results at 500 yds., and not too bad at 650 yds. After that the bigger calibers are a better choice for really long distances.
The 1:16" would be better for heavier bullets. But if you're putting one together, I'd even go tighter with a 1:15" if the plan is heavy bullets at longer distances.
Are you planning a single shot, or repeater Bill? If it's a single shot the bullet weight wont be an issue. If used in a repeater the OAL can become an issue with heavy long bullets.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
frnkeore
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7249
Location: Central Point, OR 97502
Joined: Jun 16th, 2010
Re: What can one expect from a 1:18 in a .38-55?
Reply #4 - Nov 18th, 2018 at 1:46pm
Print Post  
Hi Bill,
When did you move to NM?

The 18 twist has been used for many years in SS competition with 300 - 330 gr, Pope/Hudson style bullets. 18.5 gr of 4759 was a old (1970-80's) match load with those bullets.

In 1987, I bought the only 38 cal spitzer mold that I could find. It was a NEI, no long available but, you could have it made.

I also designed a 38 cal that will stabilize in a 18 twist and be competitive at 200 yards, with the 214 - 220 gr 32 cal spitzers.

Recoil is the main issue with the 38 but, it's a excellent caliber.

Frank
  

ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
BillOregon
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 191
Location: Sweetwater, Texas
Joined: Jul 28th, 2006
Re: What can one expect from a 1:18 in a .38-55?
Reply #5 - Nov 18th, 2018 at 2:32pm
Print Post  
Frank, talking to you and to Vall feels like old home week in Oregon on here today. Still chasing cougars out of the barn in Keno? I moved to NM a year ago.
I actually was asking about a 1:18 .38-55 because a friend had a Uberti High Wall for sale, but my question was as rhetorical as practical. Seemed the late Dan Theodore, God rest his soul, was playing with very fast .38 barrels -- maybe 1:12 - 1:13, and the capacity of the .38-56 not long before he passed in the fire.  Those are good looking bullets.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzendave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Retired Ex-Shooter

Posts: 4027
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Joined: Jan 28th, 2005
Re: What can one expect from a 1:18 in a .38-55?
Reply #6 - Nov 18th, 2018 at 2:41pm
Print Post  
I won a .38 18:1 twist Atkinson and Marquette barrel.

It shot extremely well with a 310 grain Boomer Money bullet - just a little less pointy than Franks bullet.

Harvey Trace was pushing 360 to 370 grain bullets in 14:1 twists with very good effect on BPCR Silhouette.

We were using the .38-50 which is very close to the .38-55.
« Last Edit: Nov 18th, 2018 at 2:52pm by Schuetzendave »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BillOregon
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 191
Location: Sweetwater, Texas
Joined: Jul 28th, 2006
Re: What can one expect from a 1:18 in a .38-55?
Reply #7 - Nov 18th, 2018 at 5:00pm
Print Post  
Good to know, Dave! Thanks.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16014
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: What can one expect from a 1:18 in a .38-55?
Reply #8 - Nov 18th, 2018 at 5:21pm
Print Post  
How far you're pushing the bullet also has a fair amount to do with whether a particular weight and twist rate will work well or not. At 200 yds. or less you might find the 300 gr. bullet  is great in an 18" twist. But if you start taking it out to longer distances it might begin to destabilize and might not be as accurate.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzendave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Retired Ex-Shooter

Posts: 4027
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Joined: Jan 28th, 2005
Re: What can one expect from a 1:18 in a .38-55?
Reply #9 - Nov 18th, 2018 at 6:53pm
Print Post  
My 310 grain bullet in my 18:1 twist barrel had no problem at 550 yards hitting the Rams.

The Rams tipped over slowly; but did not ring the Rams.

But I was using 50 grains Swiss FFFg.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Hiwall55
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 468
Location: west central Illinois
Joined: Jun 30th, 2012
Re: What can one expect from a 1:18 in a .38-55?
Reply #10 - Nov 18th, 2018 at 8:24pm
Print Post  
My NEI( Walt made) will stabilize to the ram line with no problem in an 18 twist. Its a round nose bullet that weighs 290 grains.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
alex henry two
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 25
Joined: Mar 22nd, 2015
Re: What can one expect from a 1:18 in a .38-55?
Reply #11 - Nov 18th, 2018 at 9:13pm
Print Post  
hi, 38calx18twist= a 1.020" bullet!   Vic.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzendave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Retired Ex-Shooter

Posts: 4027
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Joined: Jan 28th, 2005
Re: What can one expect from a 1:18 in a .38-55?
Reply #12 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 12:14am
Print Post  
For my 310 grain Boomer Money bullet the gyroscopic spin factor is:

Caliber      0.378      Inches            
Bullet Weight      310      Grains            
Bullet Length      1.18      Inches            
Barrel Twist      18      Inches/turn            
muzzle velocity      1300      fps            
Temperature      50      degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard)            
Pressure      29.92      inches of mercury (29.92 is standard)            
                       
Sg =      1.72                  
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
frnkeore
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7249
Location: Central Point, OR 97502
Joined: Jun 16th, 2010
Re: What can one expect from a 1:18 in a .38-55?
Reply #13 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 1:45am
Print Post  
And mine for the 1.30 long bullet.

Frank
  

ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
Schuetzendave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Retired Ex-Shooter

Posts: 4027
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Joined: Jan 28th, 2005
Re: What can one expect from a 1:18 in a .38-55?
Reply #14 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 7:14am
Print Post  
But there is a difference in the bullet's capabilities depending on the nose shape between Frank's Spitzer 310 grain bullet and my rounded nose 310 grain bullet.

The Spitzer is excellent at being less susceptible to the wind out to 200 yards but the dynamic balance means it becomes less stable out at about 300 yards and does poorly out to 500 yards. 

That is where the blunter nosed 310 grain bullet performs; as is it will stay more stable out to the Rams at 550 yards.

So for the Schuetzen game the Spitzers are a better bullet but for BPCR Silhouette it is better to use a rounded nose like the Creedmore, Postell, Money or Elliptical because dynamic stability of a bullet becomes more important at longer distances shot.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint