uscra112 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2018 at 12:13am:


Not only called it that, but boldly claimed "originated by us," which is technically true if "us" is interpreted to include Mass. Arms; but still, rather misleading.

What Winchester did--calling the same cartridge .25WCF--was more than misleading, it was the manufacturing equivalent of plagiarism, which they came to regret when they later stole the .25-20 repeater cartridge from Marlin, renaming it too .25WCF.

BP wrote on Oct 26^th, 2018 at 4:12am:


Based on this line of thought, then wouldn't every cartridge using the .38-55 Ballard as a base case be a necked down .38-55?

calledflyer wrote on Oct 26^th, 2018 at 11:31am:


Most of my ammo and box collection was acquired a long time ago. I recall friends asking me then why I'd want old ammo I couldn't shoot? Of course now I feel like it may have been one of the few smart gun related purchases I've made.
I do on rare occasion find something I can afford today, but usually all I can do is drool over rare boxes I see today.

We have the annual Cartridge Collectors Show up north in Castle Rock, Wa. and I enjoy going to it. But I have found out the guys there are mostly in the buy low and sell high mode. Whatever I've had to sell had some reason it was only worth 20% of what they had theirs priced at.
I rarely find anything ammunition related there that I can buy. But I often find loading tools, catalogs, and misc. gun stuff there at very fair prices. Good to look for oddball non cartridge stuff at the show.

Redsetter wrote on Oct 26^th, 2018 at 8:23am:

Ah, but was the 25-20 case as manufactured by WRA the exact same case that was used in the Maynard?
The was some past discussion on the forum regarding a difference that existed between the Maynard 25-20 case and the WRA 25-20 case.
A forum search might even find it again.

marlinguy wrote on Oct 26^th, 2018 at 4:26pm:

Is "almost exactly" sorta like being close with horseshoes and hand grenades?   

Since Marlin (and Stevens) didn't even manufacture their own ammunition, did Marlin (and Stevens) ever contract with WRA to produce ammunition for them, that they then simply stuck their name/label onto?

Was that "45-70 Marlin" cartridge originally a part of the old Ballard line, that Ballard co-developed with the U.S. Army's Springfield Armory?   

marlinguy wrote on Oct 26^th, 2018 at 5:35pm:

So, for the "45-70 Marlin" cartridge, a previously existing cartridge was taken and slightly modified, and Marlin then tagged their name onto it.

Doesn't sound much different than WRA taking the existing 38-55 case, and modifying it to make the 30WCF (and others).
Or much different than UMC then taking those WRA cases (or the 38-55 case if you choose to look at it that way), and modifying them slightly to work in Model 14 pump action rifles.
Or WRA taking the 25-20 (SS) cartridge used in the Maynard, and modifying it slightly.

Sounds like a whole lot of "back and forth" had been going on between UMC and WRA (and others) for a very long, long time... doesn't it?    

Looking at that green labeled box in your first pic, I see that WRA put Marlin's name on the label in two different locations.
Some might conclude that WRA actually gave Marlin some credit when they did so.
Of course, like Pat mentioned, it was based on a 32WCF case, so maybe Marlin should have called the cartridge the 32-20-25 instead, or would that have been too blatant?