Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 9 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker (Read 32935 times)
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16274
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #45 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 4:46pm
Print Post  
Bill Lawrence wrote on Oct 26th, 2018 at 2:02pm:
That may well be, Vall, but one of Oakley's early cabinet cards does show her with a fancy Lord pistol and a hi-grade tip-up, and I seriously doubt those guns and the other go-withs were photographer's props.  Moreover, did Marlin (or anyone) have an exclusive contract with her in the early-1900s?


Bill Lawrence


Bill, 
From the early 1890's to just after WWI Marlin provided a number of highly embellished guns to Annie Oakley. She shot nothing but Marlin rifles in her act during that time. 
There are numerous letters from Annie Oakley to Marlin dated from the early 1890's to 1917 where she acknowledged receiving these guns made for her and thanked Marlin. 
In 1894 Marlin announced in newspapers that they had shipped the first of guns Annie Oakley would be using in her exhibitions, and a  stage act. 
Shortly after she received an engraved Model 1889. rifle.
In a letter dated Nov. 23, 1906 she sent the following letter to Marlin, after receiving her gold plated and engraved 1897 .22.

"Gentlemen,
On my return from Chicago I found the beautiful rifle you so kindly sent me. I am indeed pleased and will see that full justice is done just as soon as I am through with seven more cases similar to the enclosed.
With many thanks for your kindness, and every good wish for the future of your company.

I am sincerely,
Annie Oakley"

In 1917 she received her next Marlin for exhibition shooting. Another highly engraved Marlin on the model 1893.
Annie died in 1926 after a train accident left her paralyzed, but not before she made a full recovery from that accident. 
She may have shot Stevens in earlier years, but she was a dedicated Marlin shooter from the early 1890's to the end of her career.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BP
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 8039
Location: Westside
Joined: Aug 27th, 2006
Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #46 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 5:17pm
Print Post  
.
  

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves.
Proud Noodlehead
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Redsetter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3468
Location: New York
Joined: Aug 6th, 2013
Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #47 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 5:19pm
Print Post  
Bill Lawrence wrote on Oct 26th, 2018 at 2:02pm:
In any case. I mentioned her because her flowing hair, hat, and general costume are such a part of even today's still strong Oakley image that simply mentioning the "Oakley-like" figure on the cover is usually enough for people to say something like, "Oh, yeah; I know what catalog you mean ... ".  


Though it's clearly not Annie (the face is so homely I first thought it was a man!), one of the figures on the #52 cover is definitely "Oakley-like," & holding (in a ridiculous position) a SS pistol that could pass for a Stevens.  

Actually, her aiming position in that lower right card resembles the (exaggerated) one on the catalog.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16274
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #48 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 5:51pm
Print Post  
There are little or no images of Annie Oakley from after her mid 30's. She was born in 1860, and in the mid 1890's was 35 yrs. old. Most images show her in her 20's, or early 30's.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
calledflyer
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3585
Joined: Mar 9th, 2015
Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #49 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 6:58pm
Print Post  
Presenting Annie Oakley, 1922.
What Marlin is this?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bill Lawrence
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1037
Joined: Mar 17th, 2014
Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #50 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 7:46pm
Print Post  
Annie Oakley owned a large number of guns, some of which she personally ordered, many of which were gifts, and some of which were smoothbores but not shotguns.  Shirl Kasaper, in her highly-rated biography, Annie Oakley, lists the following makes that Annie owned.  Those in bold are makes indisputably known to have been used in her performances.  Shotguns: Hibbard, Lancaster, Cashmore, Francotte, Parker, Purdey, Spencer, Scott, L. C. Smith, Ithaca, Cranston, and P. Webley & Sons.  Rifles: Winchester, Stevens, Marlin, Lancaster, Holland & Holland, and Remington.  Pistols and revolvers: Smith & Wesson, Stevens, Colt, and Gastinne Renette.

The train wreck that left Annie partially paralyzed and required several surgeries and extensive therapy to overcome occurred in 1901.  The 1922 accident that broke her leg was a car wreck.  She overcame that, too.

What was almost harder to overcome than either accident was the slander engendered by Hearst in 1904 which caused Oakley to bring 55 separate libel suits over the next six years (i.e., the "seven more cases" referred to in the Marlin letter).  And though she collected less in judgments than the total of her legal expenses while exhausting herself emotionally and physically, she won 54 of those suits.

But what would you expect from someone who overcame what remains one of the biggest obstacles of all: being internationally recognized as successful in an almost definitive man's game though a woman.

Bill Lawrence
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Redsetter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3468
Location: New York
Joined: Aug 6th, 2013
Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #51 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 8:33pm
Print Post  
Bill Lawrence wrote on Oct 26th, 2018 at 7:46pm:
But what would you expect from someone who overcame what remains one of the biggest obstacles of all: being internationally recognized as successful in an almost definitive man's game though a woman.


Very true, but Cody's show included other women, mostly trick riders, but another trick shot, Lillian Smith, who was played up as Annie's big shooting rival.  Lillian's marksmanship evidently came pretty close to Annie's, but bad behavior outside the show eventually got her canned.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bill Lawrence
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1037
Joined: Mar 17th, 2014
Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #52 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 10:05pm
Print Post  
All that Red says is true; but who today remembers any of those others, Lillian Smith included?

In any case, I only mentioned Oakley all those posts ago in the hope that her name would help others recognize the catalog I was inquiring about.  So, again, where does THAT catalog fit in the Stevens series?

Bill Lawrence

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #53 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 10:34pm
Print Post  
Quote:


Though it's clearly not Annie (the face is so homely I first thought it was a man!), one of the figures on the #52 cover is definitely "Oakley-like," & holding (in a ridiculous position) a SS pistol that could pass for a Stevens.  

Actually, her aiming position in that lower right card resembles the (exaggerated) one on the catalog.


Exposure times in that era of photography were very long by our standards.  Studio photographers commonly employed "steady rests" to help their subjects hold still.   

Could that odd position be because the pistol is being supported by something just out of the frame?
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #54 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 10:37pm
Print Post  
Do I understand correctly that the Cornell reprint with the woman taking a bird from a dog is catalog #51, then?
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Redsetter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3468
Location: New York
Joined: Aug 6th, 2013
Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #55 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 10:40pm
Print Post  
Bill Lawrence wrote on Oct 26th, 2018 at 10:05pm:
So, again, where does THAT catalog fit in the Stevens series?


Well, obviously post-1903.  The most recent date I found in my repro copy was March, 1907, but as with the #51, #52 may very well have been published in more than one ed.

#52 was the last to include those fascinating (I think) cartridge descriptions that had appeared in all earlier eds. They were omitted from #53, maybe to make room for better rifle illustrations, but still a loss, I think.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BP
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 8039
Location: Westside
Joined: Aug 27th, 2006
Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #56 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 10:47pm
Print Post  
uscra112 wrote on Oct 26th, 2018 at 10:37pm:
Do I understand correctly that the Cornell reprint with the woman taking a bird from a dog is catalog #51, then?

Phil,

I don't think anyone has been able to definitively say yet.
  

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves.
Proud Noodlehead
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Redsetter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3468
Location: New York
Joined: Aug 6th, 2013
Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #57 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 10:56pm
Print Post  
BP wrote on Oct 26th, 2018 at 10:47pm:
uscra112 wrote on Oct 26th, 2018 at 10:37pm:
Do I understand correctly that the Cornell reprint with the woman taking a bird from a dog is catalog #51, then?

Phil,

I don't think anyone has been able to definitively say yet.


That's exactly how Bill described his original #51.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BP
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 8039
Location: Westside
Joined: Aug 27th, 2006
Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #58 - Oct 27th, 2018 at 12:47am
Print Post  
Redsetter wrote on Oct 26th, 2018 at 10:56pm:
BP wrote on Oct 26th, 2018 at 10:47pm:
uscra112 wrote on Oct 26th, 2018 at 10:37pm:
Do I understand correctly that the Cornell reprint with the woman taking a bird from a dog is catalog #51, then?

Phil,

I don't think anyone has been able to definitively say yet.


That's exactly how Bill described his original #51.

Or is it a revised No. 50 catalog for 1903?
  

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves.
Proud Noodlehead
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BP
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 8039
Location: Westside
Joined: Aug 27th, 2006
Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #59 - Oct 27th, 2018 at 12:54am
Print Post  
Bill,

Take a look at the following links.
There are three different colored picture covers, and you might look to see if the timeline makes sense with the catalogs that you have on hand.
If so, then maybe we can start filling in a few more additional gaps about which particular catalogs do and don't have 44 1/2 info, etc.
Let us know what you think.

No 50 early issue (colored picture cover) 1902, 128 pages
Note the colored picture of a woman taking a bird from a dog, with the camp set up in the background, and no date shown.
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

No 50 later issue (colored picture cover) 1903, 142 pages
Note the same picture of the woman taking a bird from a dog, and the camp, and the 1903 date added on.
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

No 51 early issue (plain cover) 1904
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

No 51 later issue (colored picture cover) 1905
Note the colored picture of a man reaching to take the bird from the dog, with what looks like corn shocks in the background.
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

No 52 early issue (colored picture cover) 1907
Note the colored picture of a number of people, one of whom seems to look a bit like Annie Oakley.
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

No 52 later issue (plain cover) 1909
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
« Last Edit: Oct 27th, 2018 at 1:11am by BP »  

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves.
Proud Noodlehead
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 9
Send TopicPrint