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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker (Read 32998 times)
BP
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Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #30 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 12:41pm
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Confirming that the Catalog 50 colored cover from R&R shows the gal holding a shotgun reaching to the dog with a retrieved bird in its mouth.
Page 125 is an add for Peters Cartridge Co, page 126 is an add for the Ideal Handbook, page 127 is an add for Lyman Gun Sights, and page 128 is the Catalog 50 index page.
Which pages in your original Catalog 51 contain the additionl information for the 44 1/2 action?
It might be easy to compare the different index pages of the respective catalogs.
« Last Edit: Oct 25th, 2018 at 12:47pm by BP »  

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Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #31 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 1:01pm
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That's a good idea to compare index pages. Easy enough to post a pic. I'll do the Cornell when it arrives.
  
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Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #32 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 1:18pm
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Bill Lawrence wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 12:09pm:
Mine is the true # 51, necessitated by the introduction of the 44-1/2 action, and likely printed in 1903. 


Same one I have, an old unidentified repro, but as I said previously, I think it's the revised #51, because it contains the 44-1/2 series.  "Revised" isn't stated, however--that's my conjecture. 
  
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Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #33 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 3:33pm
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oneatatime,

There are three more 1902 dates contained in the R&R reprint of the Stevens #50 1902 catalog:
The first additional 1902 date is found on the outside rear colored cover that illustrates the three Stevens plants "WHERE THE STEVENS GOODS ARE MADE" - with the text "RIVER PLANT NO.2 ADDED IN 1902."

The second and third 1902 dates are found on page 125, contained within the the Peters Cartridge Co advertisement, in the text lines that state:
"WON The Revolver Championship and the Pistol Championship of the United States in the U.S. Revolver AssociationTournament, 1902"
and
"Won the Indoor Rifle Championship of the United States in 1898, 1899, 1900, 1901, 1902"

Something else that caught my eye was the Lyman Gun Sights advertisement found on page 127, and its notation that "Illustrations of Lyman Front and Rear Sights, other than the above styles, on page 71 of this Stevens catalogue."
After cross-referencing the Lyman sights illustrated on page 127 and on page 71, additional sights that Lyman introduced to the market in 1903 are NOT illustrated in this particular Stevens catalog.

  

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Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #34 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 3:45pm
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That's interesting, BP. What are the Lyman sights that were introduced in 1903?
  
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Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #35 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 4:20pm
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Quote:
A semi Jack Ivory Sight using the same base mount as the No.'s 26 and 24 sights, joined the Lyman line in 1903. It was the No. 32 sight, and again, its ivory bead was of a size midway between those on the No. 24 and No. 26 sights.
  

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Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #36 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 5:38pm
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Which pages in your original Catalog 51 contain the additional information for the 44 1/2 action?

First, it turns out I told a lie, likely from handling my Catalog 50 at the same time: Catalog 51 has 136 pages, not 128.  So sorry!

However, the 44-1/2 information covers pages 29 through 41 and includes all models from the "Ideal" (base model) through the 54 ("Schuetzen Special"), including the 044-1/2 ("English Model") and 53 ("Lady Model").

As for dating - you have to really scrutinize these publications - the single "Stevens-Pope Specialties" page (42) refers the reader to a separate catalog, but does note the following.  "On April 1, 1901, we purchased the tools and special machinery belonging to Mr. Pope ...".  Next, "The vast superiority of this (the Stevens-Pope) barrel was shown on July 11, 1903, at Bisley, England, when the American team won the Palma trophy ...".  Finally, the text notes that Pope himself had been shooting a "Stevens rifle with a Stevens-Pope barrel" all year, and records his latest score being 96 /100 in a match on July 25, 1903.

In short, it seems most likely that my Catalog 51 came out in the late Summer or early Fall of 1903.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #37 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 6:50pm
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Bill,

Does your #50 have the "Stevens-Pope" section beginning on page 36, and ending with fired targets shown on page 48?
  

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Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #38 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 7:45pm
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Does your #50 have the "Stevens-Pope" section beginning on page 36, and ending with fired targets shown on page 48?

I'm sorry, BP, that my earlier copy wasn't clear.  My Catalog # 51 has only a one-page "Stevens-Pope" section, page 42.  All the information quoted in the previous post is found on that one page.  And at the end of the page, interested readers are told to request the separate Stevens-Pope Specialties catalog, if interested.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #39 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 8:08pm
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Bill,

I'm refering to your copy of the #50 Catalog, that you mentioned you were handling during the page count mix-up.
  

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Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #40 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 8:31pm
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Redsetter wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 1:18pm:
Bill Lawrence wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 12:09pm:
Mine is the true # 51, necessitated by the introduction of the 44-1/2 action, and likely printed in 1903. 


Same one I have, an old unidentified repro, but as I said previously, I think it's the revised #51, because it contains the 44-1/2 series.  "Revised" isn't stated, however--that's my conjecture. 


#51 catalogs which include the 1903 date ARE revised eds:  see the top paragraph on p. 94 of SS Rifles.  The 1st ed. 51 featured ONLY 44s, according to Grant. 
  
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Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #41 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 10:40pm
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Sorry. BP, I'm apparently having a "bad brain" day. since I didn't catch that your second question referred to to Catalog # 50, not # 51.  In any case, the answer to your second question is yes; it's the same R&R reprint.

As for you, Red, if I'm understanding you correctly, Grant states on pg. 94 of Single Shot Rifles that there is a Catalog # 51  that has NO reference to the 44-1/2, implying that it was printed between BP's Catalog # 50 and my Catalog # 51, or, if you must, that my Catalog # 51 is a revision.  Now, if so, that narrows the time frame for the 44-1/2's introduction.  So, is there any verification of Grant's claim?  Does anyone have or has anyone at least seen this "first" version of Catalog # 51?

Two related questions.  There is a third Stevens catalog with all-color covers; it has a "frame" of people on the front cover, one of whom is clearly Annie Oakley.  I've never seen this catalog, only a photo of its front cover.  Is this the "first" Catalog # 51?  If not, which one is it?

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #42 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 7:58am
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Bill Lawrence wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 10:40pm:
Two related questions.  There is a third Stevens catalog with all-color covers; it has a "frame" of people on the front cover, one of whom is clearly Annie Oakley.  I've never seen this catalog, only a photo of its front cover.  Is this the "first" Catalog # 51?  If not, which one is it?

Bill Lawrence


Cover on #52 (also reprinted by R&R) features many different individuals, though not Annie as far as I can tell.

Have to assume Grant had seen two different eds. of 51, otherwise, why would he think there was more than one?   
  
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Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #43 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 11:43am
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I'd be surprised if Annie Oakley was on a Stevens catalog during that era since she was paid by Marlin, and used Marlin repeaters in her shooting.
Likely it's some image made to look similar to her to use her notoriety.

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Re: Interesting Stevens 44 22 LR on Gunbroker
Reply #44 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 2:02pm
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That may well be, Vall, but one of Oakley's early cabinet cards does show her with a fancy Lord pistol and a hi-grade tip-up, and I seriously doubt those guns and the other go-withs were photographer's props.  Moreover, did Marlin (or anyone) have an exclusive contract with her in the early-1900s?

In any case. I mentioned her because her flowing hair, hat, and general costume are such a part of even today's still strong Oakley image that simply mentioning the "Oakley-like" figure on the cover is usually enough for people to say something like, "Oh, yeah; I know what catalog you mean ... ".   

In other words, you might well be right that Stevens simply traded on her notoriety.  But even though Oakley as a performer slowed down considerably after the train wreck and the slightly later Hearst libel debacle, that notoriety was still high in the early 1900s and remains so today.  So whatever the truth of the image, I'd say it was a smart marketing move by Stevens.

Bill Lawrence
  
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