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joeb33050
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Statistics and NRA accuracy testing.
Sep 26th, 2018 at 2:09pm
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Statistics and NRA accuracy testing.
The NRA most frequently tests accuracy with a set of five, 5-shot groups.
Group size, the accuracy measure, is the center distance between the two furthest-apart holes in the target, in each group.
With the assumption that shot location is distributed NORMAL, the ratio of largest group / smallest group has been calculated for both shots / group and number of groups per set.
For example, sets of five, 5-shot groups have the largest / smallest ratio  = 1.91, the average over many sets. 
This ratio is due to random NORMAL variation alone, other effects such as wind and shooter ability would increase the ratio. 
My center fire 5-shot average ratio for 121 sets of five, 5-shot groups is 1.97. The expected ratio is 1.91. Actual / expected = 1.97 / 1.91 = 1.03.
My rimfire 10-shot average ratio for 45 sets of ten, 5-shot groups is 2.69. The expected ratio is 2.42. Actual / expected = 2.69 / 2.42 = 1.11.
The Cast Bullet Association National Match results, 2015, 2016, 2017; sets of four, 5-shot groups, (rifle): 
100 yards, 118 sets of four groups, actual ratio = 2.05, expected ratio = 1.77, actual / expected = 1.16.
200 yards, 115 sets of four groups, actual ratio = 1.98, expected ratio = 1.77, actual / expected = 1.11.
The NRA, American Rifleman, 198 sets of five group 5-shot tests ending in October 2018:
Pistol, 93 sets of five groups, actual ratio 1.61, expected ratio = 1.91, actual / expected = .84.
Pistol, 105 sets of five groups, actual ratio 1.58, expected ratio = 1.91, actual / expected = .84.
I can think of no reason that NRA actual / expected ratios would have a large-sample, (198), value LESS than 1; and can think of many reasons why it might be GREATER than 1.
I consider the NRA results to be suspect-perhaps false.






  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Statistics and NRA accuracy testing.
Reply #1 - Sep 26th, 2018 at 3:12pm
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How is the expected ratio established?
  

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joeb33050
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Re: Statistics and NRA accuracy testing.
Reply #2 - Sep 26th, 2018 at 4:39pm
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Schuetzenmiester wrote on Sep 26th, 2018 at 3:12pm:
How is the expected ratio established?


Here it is.
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Statistics and NRA accuracy testing.
Reply #3 - Sep 26th, 2018 at 7:30pm
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Thanks
  

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JLouis
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Re: Statistics and NRA accuracy testing.
Reply #4 - Sep 26th, 2018 at 7:41pm
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All HogWash based on my own seventeen years of personal experience but believe what you will and I will leave at that.

JLouis
  

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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Statistics and NRA accuracy testing.
Reply #5 - Sep 26th, 2018 at 10:24pm
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joeb33050 wrote on Sep 26th, 2018 at 2:09pm:
Statistics and NRA accuracy testing.

...

I consider the NRA results to be suspect-perhaps false.


A mighty thin evidence.   
  

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joeb33050
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Re: Statistics and NRA accuracy testing.
Reply #6 - Sep 28th, 2018 at 11:21am
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I consider the NRA results to be suspect-perhaps false.
[/quote]

A mighty thin evidence.  
[/quote]

It just got thicker

  
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joeb33050
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Re: Statistics and NRA accuracy testing.
Reply #7 - Sep 28th, 2018 at 11:21am
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and

  
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calledflyer
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Re: Statistics and NRA accuracy testing.
Reply #8 - Sep 28th, 2018 at 11:37am
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What a bunch of otherwise useful space this is wasting. And we lose much more interesting things into the ether. Thanks, Joeb33050, I'm sure we are all enthralled.
« Last Edit: Sep 28th, 2018 at 11:57am by calledflyer »  
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Cat_Whisperer
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No 1, 9.3x74R

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Re: Statistics and NRA accuracy testing.
Reply #9 - Sep 28th, 2018 at 12:32pm
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calledflyer wrote on Sep 28th, 2018 at 11:37am:
What a bunch of otherwise useful space this is wasting. And we lose much more interesting things into the ether. Thanks, Joeb33050, I'm sure we are all enthralled.


Ranks right up there with reviewing last year's football scores.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Statistics and NRA accuracy testing.
Reply #10 - Sep 28th, 2018 at 2:15pm
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I guess I don't get it, or don't care to.
  

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BP
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Re: Statistics and NRA accuracy testing.
Reply #11 - Sep 28th, 2018 at 2:37pm
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joeb,
Have you contacted the statisticians at the NRA to discuss this?
The response they provide to you might be interesting for the forum members to examine.
  

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joeb33050
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Re: Statistics and NRA accuracy testing.
Reply #12 - Sep 28th, 2018 at 3:21pm
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BP wrote on Sep 28th, 2018 at 2:37pm:
joeb,
Have you contacted the statisticians at the NRA to discuss this?
The response they provide to you might be interesting for the forum members to examine.

Well, I e-mailed the NRA with the data and analysis; no response yet.
Either the NRA testers know secrets unknown to IBS, CBA and me; or they're fibbing about group size.
You're welcome to contact the NRA with anything I've written here.
joe b.

  
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BP
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Re: Statistics and NRA accuracy testing.
Reply #13 - Sep 28th, 2018 at 4:02pm
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joeb33050 wrote on Sep 28th, 2018 at 3:21pm:
BP wrote on Sep 28th, 2018 at 2:37pm:
joeb,
Have you contacted the statisticians at the NRA to discuss this?
The response they provide to you might be interesting for the forum members to examine.

Well, I e-mailed the NRA with the data and analysis; no response yet.
Either the NRA testers know secrets unknown to IBS, CBA and me; or they're fibbing about group size.
You're welcome to contact the NRA with anything I've written here.
joe b.


Let us known when you receive their response... I'd like to see what they have to say.
  

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JLouis
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Re: Statistics and NRA accuracy testing.
Reply #14 - Sep 28th, 2018 at 4:18pm
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Unless I am missing something the IBS is related to 600yd. Benchrest shooting but I could be wrong. If so it might make more sense but it also really does not pertain to what most of us do. JoeB please clarify what statistics we are actually looking at as it has now become a bit more confusing on what exactly it is that we are looking at and how it might pertain to us?

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« Last Edit: Sep 28th, 2018 at 4:34pm by JLouis »  

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