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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Look What I Found! (Read 8323 times)
Bill Lawrence
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Look What I Found!
Sep 14th, 2018 at 7:39pm
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Sometimes the gun gods smile on us!

This afternoon, I visited one of our two "local" gunshops.  The owners are into "blacks" and survival and law enforcement stuff generally, with a few older pocket autos and much older top breaks and solid frames that are not Smiths or Colts to fill the cases.  I took my usual polite but quick circuit, only to stop walking and nearly breathing when the outline of a tang sight caught my eye. The shop had bought it locally four days ago, pulled a price out of the air that was just a little more than I'd have expected to pay for the tang sight, and out flew my credit card.

What it was you will hopefully be able to see below, courtesy of a friend's phone-camera and another forum member's picture posting expertise.  It may take a bit for Frank to get the posting done, so please be patient.

The important statistics are: Serial # 957.  A 28" heavyish barrel that tapers from octagon to round, the round portion tapering from 7/8" to 3/4".  As the pros are so fond of saying, the bore will hopefully "clean better".  The shop was told  the chambering is .32-40, but that can't be right.  It is a centerfire .32, the case as best I can currently measure about 0.323" at its base and 1-3/16" long (until I can do a cast, my wild-ass guess is a .32 Ex. Long CF, which was a Wurfflein catalog option).  Last but not least, no marks on the metal, no rust or pits, no corrosion around the firing pin, no buggered screws (indeed, most have never been turned), all the wood finish, nickel only lightly freckled overal, all the blue a pleasing, even blue-brown mix. and the barrel locks into the action with no side play and just a hair of vertical.

Now, to start off, several questions for any Wurfflein People out there.  First, going by the only Wurfflein catalog online, this a # 10 Sporting and Gallery Rifle with an extra long, not fully octagonal barrel and fancy wood; a # 20 Mid Range Target Rifle with a Gallery Peep Sight instead of a Graduated Peep Sight; or what say you?  Second, the 3/8" front and rear sight slots need to be filled.  What would be appropriate and at least reasonably possible to find?

That's it for now.  I hope you enjoy my find and I also hope you'll add comments and questions.

Bill Lawrence
  
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rgchristensen
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #1 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 7:50pm
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BILL:
     I've always coveted a Wurfflein.   I have my eye on one, but he won't part with it.   Great find!

CHRIS
RGChristensen
  
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rodneys
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #2 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 9:16pm
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The rear barrel sights are a fixed ( we call Garfied because they look like his ears ).
  
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John Boy
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #3 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 9:17pm
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Second, the 3/8" front and rear sight slots need to be filled.  What would be appropriate and at least reasonably possible to find?

Bill, the Beach foresight was factory installed on Wurffleins.  MVA has nice ones.  The rear barrel sight was a simple v cut sight that tilted towards the action.  Issue: have seen none for sale
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« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2018 at 9:23pm by »  
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Rebel
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #4 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 10:26pm
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pic of rear sight
  

WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. Let's Go Sonny!
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Bill Lawrence
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #5 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 10:33pm
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The rear barrel sight was a simple v cut sight that tilted towards the action.  Issue: have seen none for sale

Thanks, John Boy and Rebel.  Haven't I seen rear sights like those on Hawkens and other styles of plains rifles?

Bill Lawrence
« Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2018 at 11:47am by Bill Lawrence »  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #6 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 11:17pm
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Sure looks like a custom made sight to me.
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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frnkeore
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #7 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 11:35pm
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Bill's Pictures.
  

ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
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frnkeore
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #8 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 11:39pm
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For Tom T Smiley
  

ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
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Rebel
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #9 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 11:41pm
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.
  

WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. Let's Go Sonny!
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Bill Lawrence
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #10 - Sep 15th, 2018 at 12:10pm
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A plethora of pictures, thanks to Frank and Tom, whoever that second nice man is.

So far I note several differences between my Wurfflein and those of John Boy and Rebel.  First, the "tail" of my trigger guard does not appear to be cut off.  Is that, like the position of Rebel's rear sight, just a factor of these rifles all being largely hand-made?  Or is it what was done when the stock was pistol-gripped?

More importantly, my gun and Rebels have small screws on both sides of the frame, just behind and slightly above the hinge screw; John Boy's gun doesn't seem to have them.  On my gun, they're too frozen for me to risk messing with; plus their only apparent purpose seems to be to take up any eventual barrel-frame side-to-side wear.  Any other ideas or knowledge?

Last for now, my skimpy research suggests that Wurfflein used his patented action in several different sizes to make rifles, pistols, pocket rifles, and shotguns.  Did each type have it's own serial number range?  Is there even a rough idea as to how many rifles were made?

Bill Lawrence
  
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John Boy
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #11 - Sep 15th, 2018 at 10:47pm
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Bill, serial number range - no definitive production dates that I know of.  But here are some pictures of a 3 barrel set and the serial number is 5200 ... (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

I have 2 Wurffleins:
* The Ladies Model 22LR that is same rifle pictured in Grant's book - serial 5270 
* A 38-55 with a serial number of 1126
Trigger guards - looks as though there were 2 different types and as to which models or when they became different = Unknown
  
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Bill Lawrence
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #12 - Sep 16th, 2018 at 3:15pm
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Thanks, John Boy, for the heads-up on the three-barrel set.  Since the set has both centerfire and rimfire barrels, I do wish the photographer had shown the breech end of the frame; something like the Wesson two-position firing pin perhaps?

Also, for what little it's worth, the action on the three-barrel set has yet a third style of trigger guard.  Perhaps they simply got them from different suppliers?

In any case, a total production of at least 5200+ of the same model, many largely customized and all precisely fitted, over at most roughly 25 years seems quite impressive to me for an establishment usually characterized as a "shop" rather than a "factory".

Bill Lawrence
  
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John Boy
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #13 - Sep 16th, 2018 at 7:27pm
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Bill, the Wurffleins were regional rifles primarily central US and of course known in the Philadelphia. As many Stevens & Ballard collectors and Wurffleins are unknown to them. The break open action is a clone of the Wesson-Henry and I am convinced H&R used the Wurfflein as the clone for their break open.
Here's an history article of the Wurffleins and the family ... 
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bisaacson
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #14 - Sep 16th, 2018 at 7:50pm
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William's rifles are charming items and I really enjoy mine in 32-35 Steven/Maynard. If yours turns out to be a 32 Long, you might look at the Oct. 2010 issue of SSE for an article about loading and shooting the little 32s. I'd also be very interested in the chamber and bore dimensions to see what his take was on proper 32 Long (or Extra Long, if it turns out to be that) chamber and bore sizes. Different manufacturers used varying dimensions for both and wear, of course, makes our job difficult, as well, if we want to shoot the older guns. By swaging brass to the dimensions of your chambering and casting and sizing to your bore, you can get some nice performance (usually) from even old worn guns, as long as pressures are kept reasonable. Have fun!
  
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Bill Lawrence
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #15 - Sep 16th, 2018 at 8:06pm
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I read that article a long time ago and when I lucked onto my Wurfflein, tried to find it again and couldn't.  So thanks again, John Boy,

As far as "clones" go, I'm not enough of a technician to pass judgement.  I do, of course, see a general likeness between the "two hammer" Wurffleins and the "two trigger" Wessons, especially the flat-sided version of the latter.  But I do know close fitting when I see and feel it, and in that regard the Wurfflein action takes top honors; indeed, as much as I'm a "Stevens man", by comparison the Stevens tip-up is in my opinion only safe with small rimfires.

Next on the list is to order some cerrosafe from Brownell's.

Bill Lawrence
  
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coljimmy
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #16 - Sep 16th, 2018 at 11:38pm
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According to Ned Roberts - Ken Waters 1967 book, the Wurfflein match rifle was made in 22-15-60, 32-35, 32-40, 38-55, 40-70 Ballard, and other center fire cartridges including everlasting ones.  Also in 22 RF and 22 WRF.  Looks like you got a jewel.  When in doubt, chamber cast and slug the barrel.

James
  
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #17 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 1:01am
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OK I'll show my ignorance. Whats with the two hammers?
  

"White man have very strong Medicine. Shoot today maybeso kill you tomorrow." Esa-Tai Commanche warrior
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Bill Lawrence
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #18 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 9:08am
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The rear "hammer" breaks the action; the front hammer is the real hammer.

Also, for what it's worth, these guns are precisely (hand?) fitted.  For example, the barrel-action pivot screw is a serial-numbered part; it starts to eccentrically tighten up just before you fully drive it home, presumably to help keep it from backing out under use.

In my estimation, it's really a shame that Wurffleins were apparently only regionally popular.

Bill Lawrence
« Last Edit: Jan 8th, 2019 at 9:13am by Bill Lawrence »  
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #19 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 8:55pm
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Thank you. That is impressive. Are they hard to come by? Expensive compared to say a low wall?
  

"White man have very strong Medicine. Shoot today maybeso kill you tomorrow." Esa-Tai Commanche warrior
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Bill Lawrence
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #20 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 10:28pm
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As far as I know, no one has ever done a "body count" on surviving Wurfflein tip-ups.  I can't even tell you if the pistols and pocket rifles built on the same action had their own serial number ranges.  But I have never heard of one with a 5-digit serial number and suspect from my own research that no more than 5000 were built in all configurations and models.

All that I've seen were all very well fitted and finished; and while the majority are relatively "plain janes", quite a few have deluxe wood, some are finely engraved, and like the Maynard, a fair number of multi-barrel sets are known.

Again judging by my own collecting experience. they are not easy to come by today; indeed, even really big gun shows seldom have even a handful on offer.  But here's the good news.  Wurffleins are a perfect example of the truism that things which are rare are not always valuable.  That is, so little is known about them and so few people seek them that quite often, as in the case of mine, you can buy a very nice one with a shootable bore for under $500.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #21 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 10:36pm
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Those really are beautiful rifles, they look very well made. I have only encountered two, and they were in great shape. With the ignorance of youth, I sold them on but kept the Sharps carbine. I will keep my eyes wide open for one now for sure.
  
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #22 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 7:51am
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Wurfflein’s shop was somewhere in Philadelphia.  There was a Wurfflein Rifle Club there that sent its match scores in to Shooting and Fishing.  Everybody in the Club shot Wurffleins, and it may be that Wurfflein provided the range as well.  The rifle itself didn’t get a lot of press, IIRC; certainly some mentions and some regular advertising.  I got the general impression from my reading that the rifles were ever less frequently encountered the further one got from Philadelphia.

I found only one in my price range long ago.  A .32-40; everything there but the finish, and the bore certainly shootable.  But it seemed kind of loose and shaky, so I passed on it.
  
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Bill Lawrence
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #23 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 8:25am
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My rifle also initially seemed a little loose.  But as the hinge screw didn't look fully seated, I first tried to tighten it, only to be met with resistance.  Upon fully removing the screw, however. I learned that the resistance was eccentric and temporary.  Therefore, after cleaning the screw and the screw hole. I put the gun back together, screwed in the pivot until it was in fact fully seated, and - bingo - no more looseness.

Sometimes designers and mechanics are almost too clever.

Bill Lawrence
  
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John Boy
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Reply #24 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 9:03am
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But I have never heard of one with a 5-digit serial number and suspect from my own research that no more than 5000 were built in all configurations and models.

* The Ladies Model 22LR that is same rifle pictured in Grant's book - serial 5270
  
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Re: Look What I Found!
Reply #25 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 11:23am
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There was a Wurfflein collector who used to display at the Forks of the Delaware gun shows in Allentown, PA years ago.  He must have owned 20 or 25 of them, mostly in very nice condition.  Have no idea who he was or what happened to him or the collection, but he was serious about Wurffleins and willing to talk for hours about them.
  
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John Boy
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Reply #26 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 11:56am
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It's interesting - Wurffleins not frequently discussed by collectors - very few articles about them - very few advertised for sale and believe not one match shooter uses one because they are an accurate shooting rifle. I have only seen one, at the Maryland show and he wanted $2000 for it - zero engraving & no vernier

If a little over 5000 were produced ... where are they? 
* I have two to start the count
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