When I was shooting my Parker Hale Enfield Triple 7 actually gave me the best groups compared to even to Swiss. I'm currently shooting Alliant Black MZ in a pair 40 caliber cap locks and find it shoots every bit as well and I get far more shots before cleaning then with the goex fff I have 40# of in my shop.
Don't get me wrong if push came to shove I would choose traditional black powder over the substitutes but typically there's nothing wrong with them and most of the people that bad mouth them have never tried it.

Schuetzenmiester wrote on Sep 12^th, 2018 at 2:55am:


By duplexing you are effectively duplicating, maybe even exceeding, one of the advantages of 777 and other, more recently marketed BP subs, that is, much less powder fouling.

marlinguy wrote on Sep 12^th, 2018 at 11:30am:


What you post above was not my experience with Pyrodex at all. There were widely reported variations in corrosivity, thanks to maker having to use commercial grade components to make any proffet. None of users I shot with ever quit cleaning their guns when they tried Pyrodex. NONE of my modern made muzzle loaders or cartridge guns suffered any degree of corrosion from same cleaning of guns and brass as used with Dupont and Goex. We took even more care in cleaning after using crappy, really corroisive Dupont and later Goex. Touting maker's advertising sounds like just another excuse to me -- blame maker for one's own laziness. In any case, I never saw any such claims from maker. All sounds like another bunch of "Anything other than "real" BP is BAD" Nonsense!

Sure, "pre-mix" is "stuck", which is just great for most of us that simply want reliable, better than required, performance from year-to-year. 

However, messages I got for years and years is that duplexing is dangerous and therefore denied for many major matches, eg., All SASS matches, ditto for BPCR, and how many others? Sure, I could have used duplexing for hunting, should performance with Swiss, Pyrodex and 777 not been more than adequate.

There used to be all sorts of BS floating around about 777 being a loose copy of "duplexing". Sounded much like all the BS about how corrosive Pyrodex is.

Hi Marlinguy!

The answer to your question " If someone told you smokeless powder was cleaner would you still clean your guns and brass as you do with BP or Pyrodex? Is  "Nonsense question"!  

Question: Did not those wayward new user's of Pyrodex read the Materials Data sheet for Pyrodex?? 

Would you use a new propellant, not clearly classed as either normal nitro composition or normal BP composition in one of you treasured guns just cause someone, especially maker's propaganda, said "Not to worry! will not explode, not corrosive, etc., etc."

svartkruttgris#369 wrote on Sep 13^th, 2018 at 2:54pm:


It's only nonsense because it doesn't fit your idea of people being "lazy". And who gets an MSD when they buy gun powder? I sure haven't ever even been offered an MSD with gun powder, let alone have one given with it. That's silliness, or nonsense as you call it.
I wont even use real BP in my old guns, so I don't need to be concerned with the replicants. But I did indeed use some pyrodex in a couple BP revolver kits I assembled decades ago, and to answer the question, I did have corrosion issues, even though the info on the containers indicated it was "clean burning". And I did lose brass cases trying it in my 1881 Marlin many years ago. I also found it less than clean burning when the gun's action became sluggish after the 7th or 8th shot fired. So seeing it was not playing well with my lever action repeater, I took it home and cleaned it just like I would have if it had been BP. Had it not gotten jammed up with the Pyrodex, I might have waited a day to clean it.
But using anything not tried and tested in one of my prized guns is hardly a good example, as what I'd do with a replica Colt 44 revolver, and what I'd do with an original fine single shot are hardly the same. That's just more silly examples.

marlinguy wrote on Sep 13^th, 2018 at 5:50pm:


Well, for starters, I got a MSD for Pyrodex shortly after buying my 1st can simply cause I wanted to know more about what I was getting into. But then, I had information that you probably never did. Pyrodex was hardly "just another gunpowder" and only of interest to BP shooters. I will leave it at that.