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ohland
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Unique in an 1885 Low Wall 32-20
Sep 9th, 2018 at 2:15pm
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The 32-20 is a mild mannered cartridge. Easy on the body to shoot, not hard on the ears (always use ear plugs!), and fairly frugal to load for.

I slogged through 40+ pages of posts in the reloading part of the forum, but I'm not seeing the love for Unique (actually, not many posts with Unique). Yes, there are better flowing powders, perhaps more uniform SDs, but an 8 pound jug makes up for the little ankle-biters...

Using 115gr cast bullets, looking for 1,000 - 1,200 fps. 50 yards or so with iron sights.

Any dependable loads?
  
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colo native
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Re: Unique in an 1885 Low Wall 32-20
Reply #1 - Sep 9th, 2018 at 2:35pm
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I have an old 73 winnie and it is 32cfw, My load is 3.5 UQ.  
the same for 1st gen colts..  ..no problems...

It does need a good crimp, lee factory is a good one, but yours being a single shot may not need much if any..

Old Lymans book for reference, good luck
  
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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: Unique in an 1885 Low Wall 32-20
Reply #2 - Sep 9th, 2018 at 2:54pm
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From Lyman's 47th for Unique with 115 gr under #311116 GC bullet. This bullet basically the old standard #311098 with GC.
4,2 gr gives 1110 fps and 5,5 gr gives 1390 fps in Winchester cases with Remington 6 1/2 or Winchester 6 1/2. 

Lyman's 44th gives data for Unique and #311116
4,0 gr 1175 fps and 5,0 gr 1385 fps
Savage Sporter 24 1/2" barrel, same rifle but 24" barrel for 47th (0,313 groove diameter).

Other 110-120 cast will work as well. I use SACO 322 120 gr 0,314" in original Win LW rifle with 0,313" groove diameter

Lotsa folks use Unique in 32-20. I much prefer 4759 for cast in rifles, of which I have most of an 8 lb jug remaining.

Starline cases give longest life in my guns, Remington almost as long. Winchester cases give me shortest case life.

I have long used Federal Small Pistol primers, usually "Magnum".
« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2018 at 3:10pm by svartkruttgris#369 »  
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GrumpyBear
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Re: Unique in an 1885 Low Wall 32-20
Reply #3 - Sep 9th, 2018 at 4:52pm
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Using Unique in my Marlin 1894 CL, 5.5 grains with 115 grain cast works well, no chrony info.
  

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George Babits
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Re: Unique in an 1885 Low Wall 32-20
Reply #4 - Sep 9th, 2018 at 9:08pm
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I have several 32-20 rifles and use 11.0g of 4227 in all of them with the 115 grain gas checked bullet.  I originally put that load together for use in a Remington #2 rolling block, but it has worked very well in 1892 Winchesters and an original LoWall.

George
  
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coljimmy
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Re: Unique in an 1885 Low Wall 32-20
Reply #5 - Sep 9th, 2018 at 10:02pm
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Many years ago, I loaded unique in my 1873 Winchester and the same load in an 1878 Colt double action, using a Lyman 42798 mold with about 10% tin, sized .427.  The mold had a long ogive and the crimp wasn't effective.  The recoil apparently seated the bullets deeper.  On the same day, It bent the '73 bolt and split a cylinder in the Colt, unrepairable.  I managed to finally drive the bolt out of the '73 and used it to kill a buck deer later, still have it.  This was with the Lyman book data for pistols and '73's.

I found that a later 42798 mold had a shorter ogive, and I use it still, but NOT with Unique.  Not anything with Unique, but 2400 or 4227.

James

  
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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: Unique in an 1885 Low Wall 32-20
Reply #6 - Sep 9th, 2018 at 10:43pm
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coljimmy wrote on Sep 9th, 2018 at 10:02pm:
Many years ago, I loaded unique in my 1873 Winchester and the same load in an 1878 Colt double action, using a Lyman 42798 mold with about 10% tin, sized .427.  The mold had a long ogive and the crimp wasn't effective.  The recoil apparently seated the bullets deeper.  On the same day, It bent the '73 bolt and split a cylinder in the Colt, unrepairable.  I managed to finally drive the bolt out of the '73 and used it to kill a buck deer later, still have it.  This was with the Lyman book data for pistols and '73's.

I found that a later 42798 mold had a shorter ogive, and I use it still, but NOT with Unique.  Not anything with Unique, but 2400 or 4227.

James



You are not first to overload 44-40 with Unique -- easy to do in 1873 Winchesters and early Colts, ditto for 45 Colt. Easy to do same with 32-20 -- plenty of space left to overload it.

My light load for 32-20 is 8,5 gr 4759 for 1,177 fps in my old rifle and a standard load in older loading manuals. 
  
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Re: Unique in an 1885 Low Wall 32-20
Reply #7 - Sep 9th, 2018 at 11:24pm
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It wasn't overloaded as per the 1957 Lyman manual.  It was recoil setting the bullets back in the case due to the long ogive of the bullet resulting in the smaller case volume for the moderate load which caused the damage, this may be seen in many powders, but I got snakebit by Unique, which is more sensitive to the deeper set bullets evidently.

I avoid the snake now.  I was able to repair the '73 short rifle with a replacement bolt after I pounded the bent bolt out, but the Colt was done.

James

  
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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: Unique in an 1885 Low Wall 32-20
Reply #8 - Sep 10th, 2018 at 10:46am
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Hi James!

Agree about too deeply seated bullets and faster powders giving serious over pressures. Bullseye and HBWC seated too deeply in 38Spl target loads have been reliable damagers of target pistols for a long time. 

I was once present when a vintage 45 Colt SA blew off top half of cylinder and busted top strap. Shooter was using a common Unique load and, afterwards pulled all the remaining bullets and found no overcharges. What was the cause? Thin cylinder walls in those guns scare some of us away from "pistol" powders in such guns. Often to Ruger Blackhawks and Vaqeros.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Unique in an 1885 Low Wall 32-20
Reply #9 - Sep 10th, 2018 at 10:48am
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I'm pretty sure Moses used Unique, as it's one of the oldest powders listed in very early loading manuals. And for all sorts of cartridges. Tons of Unique loads in old Ideal and Lyman manuals, and I've used Unique for over 40 years myself. I really like it. 
I see people often talking about how easy it is to double charge Unique or other powders. If you're not careful in your reloading, you probably shouldn't be reloading. Or maybe stick to just BP for safety's sake.
  

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ohland
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Re: Unique in an 1885 Low Wall 32-20
Reply #10 - Sep 10th, 2018 at 12:24pm
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marlinguy wrote on Sep 10th, 2018 at 10:48am:
I'm pretty sure Moses used Unique, as it's one of the oldest powders listed in very early loading manuals. ...
I see people often talking about how easy it is to double charge Unique or other powders. If you're not careful in your reloading, you probably shouldn't be reloading. Or maybe stick to just BP for safety's sake.


Other than an instance of headspace and timing error with Trailboss (yes, it does compress solid, and I did pull every one without shooting any...), I load on a single stage, all operations done in order on ALL rounds... Size as needed, then prime, then bell, load powder, then seat.

Part of the method is to visually inspect all cases after charging. If I loose track of the throwing / weight, I dump that charge in the powder hopper...
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Unique in an 1885 Low Wall 32-20
Reply #11 - Sep 10th, 2018 at 1:24pm
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I like B'eye and Unique, a lot and hope that they remain with use for as long as there is a need for faster powders, even though Hodgdon would very much like to eliminate them.

I'm not a big pistol shooter but, when my shoulder was bad, I collected and shot a few of them. I liked a old standard load of 8.5 gr of Unique, behind a 250 gr bullet in my 45 Colts. My favorite 45/70 load was 10.5 gr of Unique, with a 430 gr bullet, breech seated. I even tried it with my breech seated 22RF and got the highest velocity but, I had better accuracy with B'eye.

Regarding safety in revolvers, my experience was that the OAL grows with recoil. In my heavy 45 Colt loads (23 gr 296/335 gr bullet) in my Blackhawk, I tied up the cylinder once, not using enough crimp (bullet moving forward making contact with the frame). So, I don't see the issue with revolvers, unless you double charge or a charge bridges.

It's a great "Unique" powder Smiley

Frank
  

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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: Unique in an 1885 Low Wall 32-20
Reply #12 - Sep 10th, 2018 at 3:23pm
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marlinguy wrote on Sep 10th, 2018 at 10:48am:
 
I see people often talking about how easy it is to double charge Unique or other powders. If you're not careful in your reloading, you probably shouldn't be reloading. Or maybe stick to just BP for safety's sake.


All depends how you want to structure your approach to safe loads. I do not like such low volume loads that two charges will fit into the case unnoticed. Personal preference. In addition, my experience has been that powder charges that nearly fill cases and still keep chamber pressures within safe limits have been reliable in the hunting fields.

For years and years, I used BP loads for nearly all my target shooting with rifles and revolvers, even trap shooting. Simple loading, excellent accuracy for what I was doing. Later I moved on to slow "nitro for black" loads and used them until bad eyesight and other physical degradations greatly curtailed my shooting. 

I might also add, my standard reloading process for sized and primed cases is designed to be extra safe. Step 1. Verify primed case is empty, Step #2. pour weighed powder charge into this case. Step 3. Seat bullet immediately. IF attention wavers, stop for a while. That is the mechanical part. The other "half" is load selection.

 
« Last Edit: Sep 10th, 2018 at 3:33pm by svartkruttgris#369 »  
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jy3855
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Re: Unique in an 1885 Low Wall 32-20
Reply #13 - Sep 11th, 2018 at 10:57am
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I'm another shooter that uses a lot of Unique in my loading of rifle and pistol cast/swaged bullet loads. 

Because of the fact that with casual examination, a double charge could go unnoticed, I charge my cases in a loading block, either from a powder meter, or from pan-weighed through a funnel. 

When all of the cases that I am planning to load are charged, I set the loading block on the bench in good overhead light, and examine each case from an angle that gives a view of the top of the powder charge as a small crescent. When viewed side by side at this angle, small differences in powder charges are noticeable.

My records of how many thousands of rounds I've loaded with Unique, Bullseye, Red Dot, and Green Dot were lost in a fire, but they are many tens of thousands, and I've never unintentionally blown up a gun*.

*guns I've blown up or tried and failed to blow up were guns slated for destruction during a college internship at a state crime laboratory many years ago.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Unique in an 1885 Low Wall 32-20
Reply #14 - Sep 11th, 2018 at 11:29am
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svartkruttgris#369 wrote on Sep 10th, 2018 at 3:23pm:


All depends how you want to structure your approach to safe loads. I do not like such low volume loads that two charges will fit into the case unnoticed. Personal preference. 



I don't know different ways to structure safety? Safe is safe, and I've always tried to double check everything when reloading, regardless of caliber, powder, charge, or any component.
There are always issues with case capacity and deviations in velocity. And there are powders that were never designed to be used in certain cartridges. But Unique was always listed as a powder for reduced charges in much larger cases than the .32-20. 
If people prefer to not use it because they don't trust themselves to not double charge a case, then they probably shouldn't use Unique. But I wonder if those people who are concerned about making mistakes when reloading should even be reloading?
I've used Unique in a huge variety of cartridge reloading for decades, and I plan to keep using it myself.
  

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