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Red Cent
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OCW
Sep 8th, 2018 at 12:54am
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Not related to OCD. Optimal Weight Charge.
I have been reading about this method of tuning your load. Does it have a place in cast lead bullets? Opinion?

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rgchristensen
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Re: OCW
Reply #1 - Sep 8th, 2018 at 5:44am
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     There is a publication by Harold Vaughn, called "Rifle Accuracy Facts", which deals with this. (among other things)  Primarily a discussion of vibration harmonics, and about finding the velocity at which the bullet exits the barrel at the extreme of one of the vibrations.   At this point, the actual movement of the barrel in vibration will be at a minimum.
     The suggested method of firing the groups is a good one, as it tends to eliminate factors which might change between the firing of ONE group and the NEXT.  This is a useful ploy in many experimental designs.   Gets away from effects of light, wind, weather, phase-of-the-moon, and whatever.
      The afore-mentioned Harold Vaughn is a genuine rocket scientist who set out the examine causes of inaccuracy in rifles.   The book is out of print and hard to find -- maybe interlibrary loan would be a good source.

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Red Cent
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Re: OCW
Reply #2 - Sep 8th, 2018 at 8:18am
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There is also the Ladder Method.
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SDave's method plus these two should give me something to test. 
Mr. Vaughan's book retails for $119.99 on Amazon.
  

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rgchristensen
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Re: OCW
Reply #3 - Sep 8th, 2018 at 1:22pm
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     The "ladder method" will give you useful information about bbl vibrations -- Vaughn's book thoroughly explains what is going on, not only with this topic, but discussions of rifle barrels moving around in the action threads (hard to believe, but demonstrable) and other things.   I admit that $100+ seems somewhat a stiff price.
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bpjack
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Re: OCW
Reply #4 - Sep 8th, 2018 at 4:53pm
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The first time I heard about the ladder method, I was shooting my 32-40 doing some fine tuning getting 1.5” or so groups at 200 yds when this very loud “jerk” showed up.  Between us was a guy sighting in his 270 hunting rifle and the jerk began loud bragging about his new custom built “sniper” rifle in 338 Lapua built by the gunsmith who built them for the local police. He was explaining his ladder loading technique to the poor hunter quite vociferously and how accurate this rifle would be. 1st shot was “right on”. Second was 4 inches from the first.  The third didn’t help the group. “Not a good load he proclaimed”. After a couple of more loads that never grouped better that about 3.5” he quieted down and began muttering. After a 1/2 hour he sullenly packed up his stuff, retrieved his target and sulked off.  The hunter just looked at me and smiled as he shrugged his shoulders.   

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JLouis
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Re: OCW
Reply #5 - Sep 8th, 2018 at 6:06pm
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Yep been around a few of them folks shooting at 100yds. Often times they will come over to see what kind of contraption I am shooting over at 200. And they kindly ask me how does it shoot so I let them have a look see at my target through my spotting scope and typically you will here a holy crap and it helps to calm down their egos a tad. And on the other hand we have a top thousand yard jacketed competitor and one who shoots competitive tactical and then it is me who is saying holy crap. Two of the nicest fellows one could meet. And then there are some of the black rifle folks who have extracted brass flying towards your head while trying to shoot and could care less.

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« Last Edit: Sep 8th, 2018 at 6:14pm by JLouis »  

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bpjack
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Re: OCW
Reply #6 - Sep 8th, 2018 at 10:40pm
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The father of a friend at work was at the range helping one of his friends sight in an AR with a new red dot sight.  I was the only other shooter at the opposite end of the range.  I watched them pour close to 40 rds down range adjusting the sights every other shot and never hitting the paper at 50 yards.  I headed to their end and picked a pop van from the trash. As I approached I called a cease fire without explaining my plan. I went to the 50 yard berm just to their left and put the can right in the middle.  I said to aim at it and saw their bullet impact 4 feet right and 4 feet below the can.  All their previous rounds were impacting in the grass and they never saw them.  When I told my friend he was agast that his hunting partner dad needed such help.   

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Dellet
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Re: OCW
Reply #7 - Sep 8th, 2018 at 10:59pm
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Hard not to include Chis Long when looking at Dan Newberry.

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: OCW
Reply #8 - Sep 9th, 2018 at 3:15am
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Jack, Your vociferous shooter reminds me of a character I met out plinking 40 years ago.  He was carrying on and on about how accurate his .22 was and how well he could shoot.  I had run out of targets to break.  He would shoot  a bottle.  I would ask if he was done shooting at it and he would say he was.  I would break the neck  Grin  He kept talking about how much more accurate his shooting was  Roll Eyes  I kept breaking the necks after he broke the bottles  Huh   Cheesy
  

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Re: OCW
Reply #9 - Sep 9th, 2018 at 3:30pm
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At three of my clubs, and others, shooting bottles
is probably one of the most "offensive" of targets to use.
Per club regulations.
Sorry about that Schuetzenmeister.
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: OCW
Reply #10 - Sep 9th, 2018 at 3:39pm
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That's OK beltfed. Back in the those days I had never seen a shooting range, did not know what they were or that they exist.
  

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Re: OCW
Reply #11 - Sep 10th, 2018 at 12:44am
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Around here people go onto Forest Service land and break bottles, old computer monitors, and even shoot up old washing machines. Plus cans and other trash - pick it up when they leave? Noooooo. Then they wonder why the FS wants to end all shooting in National Forests.
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: OCW
Reply #12 - Sep 10th, 2018 at 1:56pm
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When I was a kid people used to dump their garbage out in the desert.  It was about 1980 when they opened the local landfill. That was the end of the target supply.  Roll Eyes

The timber companies closed off all the forest lands the own here in Western WA many years ago because of illegal dumping.  Seems like the yuppies in Seattle couldn't get a grip on  the purpose of landfills. 

I have never heard of the ladder system before.  It makes a lot more sense than shooting a bunch of separate groups and comparing them for the initial effort.
  

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