Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Case ID turning (Read 6338 times)
Red Cent
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 316
Location: Benton, KY byway of WV, VA, NC
Joined: Dec 25th, 2016
Case ID turning
Aug 29th, 2018 at 10:47pm
Print Post  
Do you consider this a necessary step for accuracy? 

With all the mandrells and expander plugs, I would think it superflous.
  

Life is too short to argue with stupid people
and/or drink cheap booze
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
frnkeore
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7650
Location: Central Point, OR 97502
Joined: Jun 16th, 2010
Re: Case ID turning
Reply #1 - Aug 30th, 2018 at 2:00am
Print Post  
There at least 2 cases where it can be very important when shooting fixed ammo.

1. If the brass has uneven case walls.

2. If a chamber has to small a neck, as in match chambers that are made small to require neck turning or reaming, to guaranty neck will be concentric and in the case of paper patch chambers that are made to hold bore diameter bullet and you want to shoot a groove size bullet. It must be done the hold and chamber the groove size, GG bullet.

Frank
  

ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
40_Rod
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Extremism in the persuit
of accuracy is not a
vice

Posts: 4285
Location: Knoxville, TN
Joined: Apr 20th, 2004
Re: Case ID turning
Reply #2 - Aug 30th, 2018 at 11:10am
Print Post  
Breech seating was your great grandfathers way around case turning.

40 Rod
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Red Cent
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 316
Location: Benton, KY byway of WV, VA, NC
Joined: Dec 25th, 2016
Re: Case ID turning
Reply #3 - Aug 30th, 2018 at 1:05pm
Print Post  
"1. If the brass has uneven case walls."


Now to see how to ask a question. If one has some cases that have uneven walls and want to turn the inside of the neck, how does the cutter remove the "thick" part rather than follow the hole. I have two Pacific case trimmers and a Lyman Pro Trimmer. Neither exhibits the ability to hold the case to allow a neck reamer to even out a case neck.

Reading about the bushing method or the neck collett method of neck sizing, they are touted to actually even up the case neck walls. Opinion or experience?

40 Rod, I have obtained A RW breech seater and have been talking to a member here and Tom of Accurate Molds. We may have come up with a BS bullet for me.
  

Life is too short to argue with stupid people
and/or drink cheap booze
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
frnkeore
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7650
Location: Central Point, OR 97502
Joined: Jun 16th, 2010
Re: Case ID turning
Reply #4 - Aug 30th, 2018 at 1:19pm
Print Post  
Most people outside turn the case necks, to reduce or make them concentric. It's not as easy but, cheaper than inside reaming.

This is a inside reamer, for a 30 Herrett. It was a stocked item, 30 years ago but, now would have to be custom ordered. I'm not even sure they make, stocked inside reamers but, I'm sure someone like C-H would custom make one. The draw back would be cost, at least $200 for one.

Frank
  

ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 18048
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Case ID turning
Reply #5 - Aug 30th, 2018 at 9:14pm
Print Post  
I outside turn necks also, but mainly because it doesn't matter where you stop at, it wont leave a ridge inside that the bullet will stop against when seating fixed ammo.
And my case trimmer can be set to a specified thickness, so with the inside mandrel it wont take metal off thin areas, just thicker walls.
As previously mentioned, brass for breech seated bullets doesn't need any neck work.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
40_Rod
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Extremism in the persuit
of accuracy is not a
vice

Posts: 4285
Location: Knoxville, TN
Joined: Apr 20th, 2004
Re: Case ID turning
Reply #6 - Aug 31st, 2018 at 10:08am
Print Post  
If your Going to Ream the inside of the neck the only way you can do it properly is to use the same chamber reamer that you used for the rifle. Chamber a full length stub then fire form your brass. Now fix the brass in the stub chamber and ream it out.

40 Rod
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
derskeeter
Newbie
*
Offline



Posts: 3
Joined: Mar 6th, 2015
Re: Case ID turning
Reply #7 - Sep 2nd, 2018 at 5:54pm
Print Post  
I've always inside neck reamed when I was necking down a case and the neck walls became too thick. It is usually necessary to anneal the cases after doing this.


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 18048
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Case ID turning
Reply #8 - Sep 2nd, 2018 at 6:37pm
Print Post  
40_Rod wrote on Aug 31st, 2018 at 10:08am:
If your Going to Ream the inside of the neck the only way you can do it properly is to use the same chamber reamer that you used for the rifle. Chamber a full length stub then fire form your brass. Now fix the brass in the stub chamber and ream it out.

40 Rod


Am I misunderstanding some of what you wrote? (probably) Do you mean to use the same reamer to make a chamber jig, but not use the same reamer to open up the case neck? I'd assume if you used the same reamer you chambered it with to open the case neck, then you'd have no case neck left at all.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tdmidget
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 52
Joined: Jan 21st, 2016
Re: Case ID turning
Reply #9 - Sep 2nd, 2018 at 7:45pm
Print Post  
He is referring to workholding. The case would be held in a dummy chamber cut with the same tool as the chamber. The reamer must be guided by a very close tolerance hole cut in the same operation for concentricity. The reamer should be very short for rigidity. Such a set up should yield concentricity of .002" in brass I would guess.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tdmidget
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 52
Joined: Jan 21st, 2016
Re: Case ID turning
Reply #10 - Sep 2nd, 2018 at 7:49pm
Print Post  
Don't see how to edit so I meant .0002" concentricity. You are probably within .002" to start.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 18048
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Case ID turning
Reply #11 - Sep 2nd, 2018 at 7:49pm
Print Post  
tdmidget wrote on Sep 2nd, 2018 at 7:45pm:
He is referring to workholding. The case would be held in a dummy chamber cut with the same tool as the chamber. The reamer must be guided by a very close tolerance hole cut in the same operation for concentricity. The reamer should be very short for rigidity. Such a set up should yield concentricity of .002" in brass I would guess.


I don't turn the ID, so I'd never make such a jig. I also have almost exclusively old guns, so couldn't find the original reamer either.
I prefer turning OD of case necks and my K&M tool uses mandrels to fit the inside neck and easily turns the outside consistently the same thickness. I have made some spare mandrels for odd calibers I want to turn or thin.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tdmidget
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 52
Joined: Jan 21st, 2016
Re: Case ID turning
Reply #12 - Sep 2nd, 2018 at 10:42pm
Print Post  
Congrats!! The piece I described IS called a jig. Also a fixture. The terms are not synonymous but in this case the object is both a fixture and a jig. 
When I was an apprentice machinist my instructor was a hard ass I guess. He might give a test with 50 questions and one would be pass/fail. So if you did not know the difference between a jig and a fixture you might get 49 out 50 and still fail. If I live to be 100 I'll never scratch the surface of his skill and knowledge. I'm 68 and the clock is ticking.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
craigd
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2058
Location: midwest
Joined: Feb 22nd, 2009
Re: Case ID turning
Reply #13 - Sep 2nd, 2018 at 10:59pm
Print Post  
marlinguy wrote on Sep 2nd, 2018 at 6:37pm:
40_Rod wrote on Aug 31st, 2018 at 10:08am:
If your Going to Ream the inside of the neck the only way you can do it properly is to use the same chamber reamer that you used for the rifle. Chamber a full length stub then fire form your brass. Now fix the brass in the stub chamber and ream it out.

40 Rod

....Do you mean to use the same reamer to make a chamber jig....

For an idea of how it works, take a look at the LE Wilson case trimmer. You can think of their case holder as a section of 'stub chamber'. It holds different cases based on the diameter and taper of the different holders. They have an inside neck reaming cutter that can be held in alignment with a case, but I believe even they recommend cleaning up by outside turning so the inside reamer doesn't just follow an offset neck. 

I'd go along with your thought and do outside turning only for my odds and ends. I believe inside reaming is doable, but it's much tougher, for me anyway, to arrive at a consistent and concentric neck thickness for one let alone a batch of cases.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dellet
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1303
Joined: May 19th, 2017
Re: Case ID turning
Reply #14 - Sep 2nd, 2018 at 11:05pm
Print Post  
This came up a couple months ago and got me thinking.

Checking some older cases and even some newer ones that are not really known for accuracy, it’s not uncommon to find the neck thickness vary as much as .003”

It seems that with breech seating and indexing case each time neck turning would not be needed. But....

My thought And or question would be, in this type of shooting, would truing the case possibly have the same effect as truing the primer pocket and flash holes in fixed cartridges?

« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2018 at 11:14pm by Dellet »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint