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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) floral foam???cont. (Read 2766 times)
critter68
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floral foam???cont.
Aug 16th, 2018 at 3:21pm
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I posed a question and started a thread this morning and now it is gone...???   anyway, where we left off....breech seating is all new to me, I have been using dry floral foam wad pushed down to the powder.   I use a dowel and push until I feel even the slightest resistance and then stop there.  Been working but now I read about barrel ringing (new to me) and I have concerns I should change my ways...?  IDK

If I don't use a wad with a small volume smokeless powder charge in a 38-55 case how do I prevent spillage when loading at the range without lifting the muzzle up off the rest each time to seat a case?  and then if I do this won't the powder charge lie (fall) horizontally in the case creating possibly an air space where the primer ignition may pass the powder charge which I would think is not good OR this would create just a plain bad powder ignition scenario
Maybe i am overthinking 
My thinking is that the whole powder charge should rest in close proximity to the primer but then many if not most experienced shooters on this forum state they do not use a wad of any sort
thanks
  

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calledflyer
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Re: floral foam???cont.
Reply #1 - Aug 16th, 2018 at 3:38pm
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Sometimes threads seem to vanish, but I dunno why. Anyway....
I just go carefully with the case into the chamber. Never been a problem with bigger cases like you and I use. These guys with such as .32-20 probably can't do it that way. Or black powder, since it's usually pretty near full. Practice with an empty to see if you can do it without it going below level. 
As far as the powder laying down- it's never been trouble with the easy to light ones I always use- 4227, 4759, and way back a little 2400. Some others may behave differently. Ask around here about that. I never have, and never will use any wad in any load. Ben workin' for a long, long time. Good luck at the new venture.
  
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critter68
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Re: floral foam???cont.
Reply #2 - Aug 16th, 2018 at 3:44pm
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awesome calledflyer   I am shooting IMR 4198
  

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calledflyer
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Re: floral foam???cont.
Reply #3 - Aug 16th, 2018 at 4:07pm
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I have shot 4198 in my .32-40 with fixed. While it worked, it wasn't the best. By the time I got enough in to produce clean, consistent burning it was more than my bullets would stand and some leading occurred. More work might have been successful, but I just went back to my other ways. Don't think I ever even thought of using it breech seated. How's it working for you?
  
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critter68
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Re: floral foam???cont.
Reply #4 - Aug 16th, 2018 at 4:31pm
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I am shooting 21.0gr under a 360gr BACO Money Bullet, breech seated, again currently with the dry floral foam wad at the powder that started the thread.  only bench shooting the load.  Bit of recoil.  so far load development and such is going very well.  Gun, casting, breech seating...all of this is new to me so I am excited about the results so far.   Last 5 shot group at 200yds I had first three touching and then threw one 1.5" right of group and finished last of 5 shots about 1" low.  I keep changing something of course so time will tell but it looks good.Fun challenge
  

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critter68
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Re: floral foam???cont.
Reply #5 - Aug 16th, 2018 at 4:36pm
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not to keep rambling but that is why I posed the question.   Here I am getting great results only to read for the first time about "ringing the barrel" and I thought shucks I better make sure my load is not going to trash a barrel.  I probably have 300 rounds down the tube with the foam wad at the powder...???
  

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JLouis
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Re: floral foam???cont.
Reply #6 - Aug 16th, 2018 at 4:50pm
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No need to worry about putting the 38-55 case into the chamber with such a small powder charge in the case. A good breach seating load for your 38-55 is only around 17.1 grains. Below is a 200yd. 38-55 target shot using 17.1 grains of 300MP, 30-1 alliy, Hoch 310-376 tapered Pope style FN bullet, winchester large rifle magnum primers, breech seated with the bullet seated to engrave just beyond the base and Dell59C lube. Rifle a CPA Schuetzen Junior / Model 52 by some. I should add no wad was being used. Shot benchrest and just a 10shot practice target the group size is .958 and one can get the 38-55 to shoot consistently very well and to also be extemely competitive if you do not mind the recoil off the bench. 

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« Last Edit: Aug 16th, 2018 at 4:57pm by JLouis »  

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gunlaker
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Re: floral foam???cont.
Reply #7 - Aug 16th, 2018 at 5:30pm
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Nice target John.  It looks like we need to make a 26 ring target for you Smiley

  
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Re: floral foam???cont.
Reply #8 - Aug 16th, 2018 at 5:43pm
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critter68
For years I have shot 38-55 with SR4759 and IMR4227 breech seated with no wad in Ballard actions. Have not ever (yet  Wink ) dumped powder into the action.
I've not ever used 4198 in a single shot for anything other than as a priming charge for duplex loads with black though. I recommend you try shooting it without a wad to see if it is as accurate as placing your foam wad on the powder. Someone responded to your inquiry about Charlie Dell's experiments that resulted in ringing a barrel. The evidence from Charlie's tests is compelling. His solution was to place a wad .10 to .20 OFF the powder charge and his result of those tests resulted in NO ringing problem. You might give that method a try. Between wad on powder, wad .10-.20 off powder and no wad at all, I'll bet you'll find one of those gives the most consistent accuracy. Please keep in mind that to place a wad (card, foam or whatever) on the powder charge may result a ringed barrel. I've not seen a wad on the powder ring a barrel but did see one of my shooting buddies ring his brand new 38-55 Shiloh M75 by using a small tuft of kapok seated lightly on the powder.
Good luck and please keep us informed on your results
  

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JLouis
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Re: floral foam???cont.
Reply #9 - Aug 16th, 2018 at 5:47pm
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Thank you Sir I had that barrel a 15 twist Douglas shooting very consistently as well and sold it to a friend who wanted to play with it for awhile and he put it on his CPA. Unfortunately he was afflicted with poor health shorty after and didn't get to play with it that much and had to give up shooting all together sadly.

JLouis
  

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JLouis
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Re: floral foam???cont.
Reply #10 - Aug 16th, 2018 at 6:10pm
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For quite some time I used to seat a .030 Veg. Fiber wad behind the base of the bullet with improved accuracy until I found a couple turned sideways that did exit the barrel and that was enough to make me quit. Just bringing it up in case someone might be thinking of doing the same. I used to insert the wad into the breach seater and seat it with the bullet and I felt the improved accuracy was due to protecting the base of the bullet and providing a more positive gas seal. 

JLouis
  

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Re: floral foam???cont.
Reply #11 - Aug 17th, 2018 at 10:16am
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At the risk of being a broken record I will try to get my attitudes on wads all in one bunch.
I use a .090” cork wad in most of my shooting. I use mostly short cases and the wad keeps the powder from getting in the action and triggers.
I have never used or tried vegetable wads so I have no opinion on them.
As to floral foam I don’t use it. I watched a friend ruin a good bench gun using the wrong floral foam and I can never remember if it is wet or dry so I just say no.
No mater what you choose for a wad material DO NOT place the wad down on the powder. Placing the wad down on the powder greatly increases the chances of ringing the chamber. I use a plug with a shoulder to place my wad between .050” and .100” off the powder then tip the case mouth down and then place the case in the chamber. This puts the powder slump facing the primer. 
Remember it is less about the wad than how you are shaping the charge when you place a wad down on to the powder. Although some materials (like Dacron) permote ringing more than others the placement is the more conducive factor.
As to a wad in the barrel I have never seen it happen in my rifles, I’m not saying it hasn’t happened I am saying I have never seen it. I will say that after thousands of rounds fired if it has happened it has never harmed a barrel.
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

40 Rod
  
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