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floral foam??barrel ringing?? (Read 12677 times)

critter68 Senior Forum Member ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 293 Location: Wisconsin Joined: May 31^st, 2018	Re: floral foam??barrel ringing?? Reply #15 - Aug 17^th, 2018 at 8:51am	Print Post
	well I am going to try loading without a wad and came up with using ear plugs as a "cork" to contain the loads from home to the range. worked very slick and you can roll them to fit probably any caliber case so I thought I would pass it along. My used ear plugs got me thinkin' and may prompt a bullet lube question....

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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4232 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: floral foam??barrel ringing?? Reply #16 - Aug 17^th, 2018 at 9:33am	Print Post
	Ledball: It is not a bunch of huey. But yes ringing does not occur frequently even if you have a wad down on the powder. Charlie Dell indicated ringing does not occur frequently but is dependent on how the rifle is handled. The more the barrel is fired in an upright condition; then the ringing will occur more frequently when the wad is on the powder. Most everyone is firing their rifle level and there is less chance of ringing compared to shooting the rifle straight up. It was advised not to raise your rifle straight up before lowering it when shooting offhand; unless it was tapped to have the powder lay flatter in the case. Charlie and others have noted when ringing has occurred in barrels. Although it does not happen frequently there is advice from Charlie to prevent it from occurring. i.e. never placing ANY TYPE OF WAD on the powder - instead elevate it above the powder layer Yes it will not happen to most shooters but YES IT HAS HAPPENED TO OTHERS USING FLORAL FOAM and just because some others have not seen it happen does not mean it cannot occur. Best to listen to those who have seen it occur than those that have not. Or read the book: "The Modern Schuetzen Rifle" written by Wayne Schwartz and Charlie Dell. Charlie was great to talk to and was the most informed person regarding barrel ringing but unfortunately he is no longer with us.
	« Last Edit: Aug 17^th, 2018 at 9:49am by Schuetzendave »

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ledball Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1021 Location: syracuse, ohio Joined: Nov 20^th, 2009	Re: floral foam??barrel ringing?? Reply #17 - Aug 17^th, 2018 at 10:19am	Print Post
	I spent a lot of time with Charlie in his later years, he could ring a brass barrel (stub ) on call with wad or no wad, it’s not the type of wad but the position of the powder. I never recall him saying you could use cork, postal cards, milk cartons,etc,but you shouldn’t use foral foam, I wonder how this stuff gets started, someone says foral foam is bad so the other guy says sounds good to me. Proof I want proof. Ledball


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40_Rod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Extremism in the persuit of accuracy is not a vice Posts: 4285 Location: Knoxville, TN Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: floral foam??barrel ringing?? Reply #18 - Aug 17^th, 2018 at 10:28am	Print Post
	I agree with Paul for the most part, as it is the placement of the wad not the wad itself. As I stated in the other post I watched a guy ruin a good bench gun using the wrong foam. Over the day the residue from that foam coated his throat and hardened. No amount of scrubbing would touch the mess and in trying everything under the sun to get it out he damaged the throat. The gun never shot right after that. 40 Rod


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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4232 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: floral foam??barrel ringing?? Reply #19 - Aug 17^th, 2018 at 10:15pm	Print Post
	Come to Spruce Grove, Alberta and I will take you to the owners house and he will explain that he has never shot anything but floral foam in the rifle and show you the barrel on his .32 RKS Hoch rifle. Because of the ringed barrel he no longer shoots it and has replaced it with a HighWall. He is talking about shortening the barrel for his son or putting a new barrel on; so make the trip FAST before he takes an inch off the barrel to get rid of the ring. I will even line up a bore scope so you can see it Ledbal. No other way than you to come and physically see it and have the direct ability to discuss it with the one and only owner of the rifle at the same time. If I sent you pictures you would tell everyone it came from another rifle or you would say someone had shot some other wad in the rifle. But it did happen regardless of your disbelief. Charlie never said: Do not use floral foam wads down on the powder. He said: Do not put any type of wad down on the powder; that it should be elevated above the powder.
	« Last Edit: Aug 17^th, 2018 at 10:21pm by Schuetzendave »

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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: floral foam??barrel ringing?? Reply #20 - Aug 17^th, 2018 at 10:33pm	Print Post
	Charlie's findings are very well outlined in his and Wayne's book and if you don't have a copy I would highly recommend that anyone interested in the sport of Schuetzen should pick one up. The self ringing of barrels and the causes found are just a very miniscule part of what the total book has to offer and it's total content is really truly priceless.

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critter68 Senior Forum Member ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 293 Location: Wisconsin Joined: May 31^st, 2018	Re: floral foam??barrel ringing?? Reply #21 - Aug 18^th, 2018 at 12:38pm	Print Post
	for those interested. My group opened up significantly without any ffwad without a doubt. I tried a ffwad at the mouth of the case and one pushed down but above the powder. The best group was with the ffwad at the case mouth. The ffwad pushed down but above the powder shrunk was ok but not as good. I did not try any shots with wad at powder as I have decided not to go there regardless of accuracy. so my plan is to play with ffwad positioning some more rather than change the load itself ie powder. The journey is young as I have a lot of other variables to fiddle with as well: case sorting, bullet sorting, bag positioning, lube amount..on and on

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calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Online Posts: 3964 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: floral foam??barrel ringing?? Reply #22 - Aug 18^th, 2018 at 1:31pm	Print Post
	Critter, it sounds as though you're making headway. Your approach is good too. One thing at a time you'll sneak up on that thing. After you get most of the stuff you mentioned sorted, I think that a little powder change might get even more. Just my thoughts. Keep it up, man.


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critter68 Senior Forum Member ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 293 Location: Wisconsin Joined: May 31^st, 2018	Re: floral foam??barrel ringing?? Reply #23 - Aug 19^th, 2018 at 8:06am	Print Post
	I searched high and low for a powder choice for that big long bullet and 4198 was the only powder mentioned on the internet with a 360 gr bullet. I have other powders but wouldn't know where to start. It is going pretty good with the 4198 but I am always willing to experiment and tighten the group.

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40_Rod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Extremism in the persuit of accuracy is not a vice Posts: 4285 Location: Knoxville, TN Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: floral foam??barrel ringing?? Reply #24 - Aug 19^th, 2018 at 9:48am	Print Post
	Some other powder choices for your 38-55 would be 4227, AA 1680 and reloader 7 40 rod


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critter68 Senior Forum Member ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 293 Location: Wisconsin Joined: May 31^st, 2018	Re: floral foam??barrel ringing?? Reply #25 - Aug 19^th, 2018 at 4:51pm	Print Post
	I have 4227 just no data as to where to start with that 360 gr money bullet

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40_Rod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Extremism in the persuit of accuracy is not a vice Posts: 4285 Location: Knoxville, TN Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: floral foam??barrel ringing?? Reply #26 - Aug 20^th, 2018 at 9:16am	Print Post
	For 4227 Start at 17 grains and work up. I have used up to 18 1/2 grains before. 40 Rod


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John Boy Ex Member	Re: floral foam??barrel ringing?? Reply #27 - Aug 20^th, 2018 at 10:49am	Print Post
	Quote: I load my cases prior to the range and use a dry floral foam wad about as thin as you can cut it without it falling to pieces. I push it down to the powder with a dowel until I feel the very first little bit of resistance. Critter - save yourself time and energy - just rip off a pinch of cotton from a cotton ball and just push it into the case mouth. Intent is to keep the powder from spilling into the chamber ... and cotton burns at 400 degrees


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critter68 Senior Forum Member ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 293 Location: Wisconsin Joined: May 31^st, 2018	Re: floral foam??barrel ringing?? Reply #28 - Aug 20^th, 2018 at 1:32pm	Print Post
	I will try the 4227, thanks for the info

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JS47 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1265 Location: Arizona Joined: Oct 12^th, 2012	Re: floral foam??barrel ringing?? Reply #29 - Aug 20^th, 2018 at 7:37pm	Print Post
	Quote: Cotton won't burn in the absence of oxygen. It seems any available oxygen in the case is consumed by the burning powder. Time of exposure is also a factor, in addition to heat. The temp. may be high enough for ignition, but it's a very brief exposure. I've tried various amounts of cotton in experimenting, weighing tufts before insertion. In No case did the cotton burn; it was never even slightly scorched. Sometimes it was compressed into a wad; occasionally left mid-bore but usually expelled. Sometimes it came out as a transparent cloud resembling some types of drifting spider webs; difficult to even see as it was so finely dispersed. I did Not in any case push cotton down onto the powder. The experience of others may vary. I'm Not recommending for or against the use of anything. I'm just relating, that in my experience cotton is not consumed on firing. Try holding a small tuft of cotton to a lighter and then do the same with kapok. I found that the kapok burns a lot faster. I was standing behind my neighbor the other day while he was shooting loads including kapok. I't didn't seem to burn, it just got blown into tiny bits. The light and wind were right so I could see it floating around. JS


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