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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range (Read 8952 times)
marlinguy
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Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Aug 12th, 2018 at 8:24pm
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After two stressful days of trying to work out a deal at our collector show. I finally was able to get one done and came home with a neat little Ballard 4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range.
Nimschke engraved, and chambered in the .44-75 Ballard caliber. Heavy 30" half octagon barrel. I'm really pleased to get it!

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Ra
Reply #1 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 8:38pm
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What a nice Ballard you have there!

Regards,
Powderman
  
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JLouis
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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #2 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 8:42pm
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Congrats Vall! 

JLouis
  

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Bill Lawrence
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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #3 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 8:49pm
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Gorgeous! Is it signed by Nimschke or, perhaps better yet, one of those found in Wilson's book?

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #4 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 8:52pm
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You don't buy junk do you. Very nice indeed.
  
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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #5 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:01pm
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Did it again. Nicely done- super neat rifle. 
Can I have that Hepburn that just won't fit with all those Ballards?
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #6 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:04pm
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Bill Lawrence wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 8:49pm:
Gorgeous! Is it signed by Nimschke or, perhaps better yet, one of those found in Wilson's book?

Bill Lawrence


The engraving isn't signed, but it matches rubbing in my Nimscke book. Also had Bob Evans (secretary of the Engraver's Guild) look at it and he said it was Nimscke engraving.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #7 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:05pm
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calledflyer wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:01pm:
Did it again. Nicely done- super neat rifle. 
Can I have that Hepburn that just won't fit with all those Ballards?


I'll try to remember you in my will Pat! Just remind me after you hear of my demise!
  

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #8 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 10:17pm
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You could just adopt me now and save the probate paperwork. Grin
Great Find Vall,
Aaron
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #9 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 10:38pm
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Rebel wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 10:17pm:
You could just adopt me now and save the probate paperwork. Grin
Great Find Vall,
Aaron


I wont worry about all those costs after I'm gone. Heck, I don't worry about them now Aaron! Wink
  

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #10 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 12:05am
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She's a beauty, Vall!    Smiley
  

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #11 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 1:55am
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That is definitely a Ballard to be proud of ...
  

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #12 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 4:04am
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Nice Ballard!  Wanted to come see you this weekend but 91 yo mom takes precedence. Hopefully next year.  Undecided
  

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #13 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 7:39am
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She's a beauty for sure. 
I have a question, if you don't mind - I notice that the front sight is not windage adjustable. Should it not have a windage adjustable front sight ?
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #14 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 8:36am
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.22Hepburn wrote on Aug 13th, 2018 at 7:39am:
She's a beauty for sure. 
I have a question, if you don't mind - I notice that the front sight is not windage adjustable. Should it not have a windage adjustable front sight ?


According to Dutcher they came without windage adjustable globe sights. But he also said many owners ordered the windage globe too, so they're seen about 50% both ways. He also said that occasionally he sees them with long range tang sights as a couple calibers (like the .44-75) were great long range calibers, so guys special ordered taller tang sights.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #15 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 8:38am
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Bill Lawrence wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 8:49pm:
Gorgeous! Is it signed by Nimschke or, perhaps better yet, one of those found in Wilson's book?

Bill Lawrence


I discovered something in Dutcher's Ballard book last night Bill. He wrote that all #4 1/2's under serial number 5,000 were engraved by Nimschke. This gun is around serial number 2000, so confirms it's in that range.
After 5000 it was Nimcshke, Conrad Ulrich, and another unknown engraver. Then after 8500 it was Ulrich, and possibly his son George.
  

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #16 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 8:54am
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A really neat old Ballard. Never heard of the 44-75 Ballard. Any problems with loading this old timer ? What do you use for the parent case ? Dale.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #17 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 9:18am
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DWT1885 wrote on Aug 13th, 2018 at 8:54am:
A really neat old Ballard. Never heard of the 44-75 Ballard. Any problems with loading this old timer ? What do you use for the parent case ? Dale.


Thanks Dale! 
The .44-75 is extremely close to the .45-90 Win. except the .44-75 is 2.5" long, and the .45-90 is 2.4" long. A .45-100 is 2.6" and might work better. I've got some .45-90, so I'll size them and see if they gain any length? Otherwise I'll need to buy some Starline .45-100.
I might be able to size them down with my .44-100 Ballard dies, but have to try it. Otherwise it's a spendy C&H4D die set at around $215.
  

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #18 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 10:41am
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Very nice Ballard.
Have never seen the nose cap extension. Looks good.
Chuck
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #19 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 2:14pm
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After slugging the bore today I found out quickly it isn't a .44-75 caliber. A .45 caliber round ball just set well above the muzzle crown, and after slugging it measured .411" groove. I figured it might be a .40-63 Everlasting, so tried one of those loaded rounds and it slipped right in. 
I'll need to do a chamber cast to ensure it truly is the .40-63 EL. Ballard, but it is one of the early calibers for this model. And the chamber is straight walled, so not one of the bottleneck calibers.
The good news is I've already got lots of brass and loaded ammo for this caliber and bore size. My Rigby Ballard is the same caliber and bore size.
  

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #20 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 3:36pm
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Beautiful Ballard! It's nice when you can make those deals happen, congratulations! Are all the Ballards out west? They're not often seen in my neck of the woods. Which is odd, seeing as they were made here in New England. Thanks for posting that nice rifle.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #21 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 4:21pm
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Gunfunpow wrote on Aug 13th, 2018 at 3:36pm:
Beautiful Ballard! It's nice when you can make those deals happen, congratulations! Are all the Ballards out west? They're not often seen in my neck of the woods. Which is odd, seeing as they were made here in New England. Thanks for posting that nice rifle.


Not sure about all, but seems to be a good number out in my area. I saw 6 or 7 for sale at our show, and that didn't include the five I had for sale.
  

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #22 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 9:41pm
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marlinguy wrote on Aug 13th, 2018 at 4:21pm:
Gunfunpow wrote on Aug 13th, 2018 at 3:36pm:
Beautiful Ballard! It's nice when you can make those deals happen, congratulations! Are all the Ballards out west? They're not often seen in my neck of the woods. Which is odd, seeing as they were made here in New England. Thanks for posting that nice rifle.


Not sure about all, but seems to be a good number out in my area. I saw 6 or 7 for sale at our show, and that didn't include the five I had for sale.

Oregon City was the end of the Oregon Trail.  That probably explains it  Roll Eyes
  

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #23 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 10:02pm
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That might indeed help explain it, Schuetzenmeister.  But I'd think that the majority of rifles that come over the Trail were plain guns, hunting guns, Pacifics, Montanas, and the like when it came to Ballards.  And that's certainly not what Vall dragged home this time (or pretty much any other time, or so it seems).  So how about it, Marlinguy; what models and calibers has your experience suggested turn up most frequently in Oregon?

Bill Lawrence
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #24 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 11:33pm
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You pretty well nailed it Bill. I see more Pacific and #2 Hunter models than anything else. Some #4 also, but not a prevalent as the #5 Pacific and #2 Hunter models.
At big shows I see more deluxe models, but often they came in from other places around the West. The schuetzen rifles are definitely very popular at shows like Denver, but I rarely have anyone even bring one into an OAC show to show me or sell. 
I actually had two #5 Pacific Ballards offered to me for sale over the weekend. Both blued completely and not properly refinished. Would have been great shooters, and both were .45-70 caliber. I bought a #5 Pacific at a local gun store 18 months ago that has been in Oregon it's entire life according to the family that owned it since new.
  

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #25 - Aug 14th, 2018 at 11:59am
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What Bill said makes a lot of sense. Ballard's do occasionally show up, more often in poor shape than not, but the hunt continues nonetheless. The Pope Ballard I found was just pure luck, before that one came along they were few and far between. Glad I joined the forum, where these single shots are front and center for us all to enjoy.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #26 - Aug 14th, 2018 at 4:35pm
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Gunfunpow wrote on Aug 14th, 2018 at 11:59am:
What Bill said makes a lot of sense. Ballard's do occasionally show up, more often in poor shape than not, but the hunt continues nonetheless. The Pope Ballard I found was just pure luck, before that one came along they were few and far between. Glad I joined the forum, where these single shots are front and center for us all to enjoy.


If you ever get a chance to go to Denver in May for the Colorado Gun Collectors annual show, I'd guarantee you'll see Pope rifles for sale. I've never gone there and not seen at least a couple there for sale. Both of my Pope Ballards came from that show in different years.
Two of my three Schoyen Ballards also came from the Denver show.
  

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #27 - Aug 14th, 2018 at 5:04pm
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Saran Wrap around the barrel, and taped off to protect it. Mixed up some Acraglass gel and added some brown flocking to color it to match the horn tip. Once it sets up for 24 hrs. I'll remove the tape and Saran Wrap and shape it down to match the horn tip.

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #28 - Aug 14th, 2018 at 6:55pm
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Vall - Roberson Ctg Co has 45-75 Win & Sharps.  Are CNC ctgs ... (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #29 - Aug 14th, 2018 at 7:06pm
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Although I've looked back through these posts twice, I can't find what it is you're correcting with the Acraglass.  What did I miss?  Insect damage to the horn?

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #30 - Aug 15th, 2018 at 10:40am
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Bill Lawrence wrote on Aug 14th, 2018 at 7:06pm:
Although I've looked back through these posts twice, I can't find what it is you're correcting with the Acraglass.  What did I miss?  Insect damage to the horn?

Bill Lawrence


Take a look at the 5th image Bill, and the horn tip. The horn tip had a chip off each side at the top edge Bill. It was the length of the horn tip and about 1/8" wide. So about 3/8" by 1/8" missing on both sides. 
Once I've repaired it, I hope the match will be so good it will be tough to see. But regardless it will look better than missing horn.


Removed the forearm today. The Saran Wrap did it's job and it easily came off. 

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The blue tape is even with the edges of the break, so once it finishes curing I'll carefully cut through the epoxy at the parting line and the excess will come off the tape and not be on the wood. Then I'll shape it down and cut the accent lines again, and give it a light coat of Wipe On Poly to seal it.

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #31 - Aug 15th, 2018 at 9:01pm
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Thanks for the explanation, Vall.  When I've had to repair horn (usually insect damage), I've made my "paste" by mixing fine dust collected by sanding real horn buttons with clear epoxy or "super glue".  Because horn is usually quite varigated, once polished down, almost no one spots the repairs.  I hope your technique works that well, too.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #32 - Aug 16th, 2018 at 12:30am
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I've done this a few times Bill, and find the dyed Acraglass works extremely well. Occasionally I use a Sharpie to put some varying colors on the repair if needed. But tiny repairs like this one rarely need touch up.
  

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #33 - Aug 16th, 2018 at 2:40pm
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Just about finished. Needs a few coats of WOP to bring up the sheen, and then should be OK. Not a perfect match, but better than missing horn!

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #34 - Aug 17th, 2018 at 4:26pm
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Excellent Vall!  When I run out of horn dust, I'll give your one-step-less technique a try.

Also, I'm beginning to think Acraglass can solve many non-metal-related problems that I used to not even think of it for.

You learn so much from people on this forum!

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #35 - Aug 17th, 2018 at 5:05pm
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This thread alone more than justified my annual membership. Thank you to all contributors.
  
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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #36 - Aug 17th, 2018 at 7:27pm
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Bill Lawrence wrote on Aug 17th, 2018 at 4:26pm:
Excellent Vall!  When I run out of horn dust, I'll give your one-step-less technique a try.

Also, I'm beginning to think Acraglass can solve many non-metal-related problems that I used to not even think of it for.

You learn so much from people on this forum!

Bill Lawrence


Thanks Bill! I like the Acraglass gel vs. the runny epoxy for things like this. The flocking I have came from bedding kits and is brown and black. So I sometimes mix them if need be for darker repairs. The brown and black dye packs that come with Acraglass are really tough to get small amounts out of! A toothpick touched to the dye can often end up as too much when working with very small amounts of the gel in tiny repairs.
I went over the 5 accent lines with a Sharpie after the picture to darken them like the existing lines are. I touched them up, and wiped the tops off before it dried to make it look aged in the lines.
Don (rustyrelyx) sent me a PM and mentioned the horn tips were buffalo horn and originally black. The 4 or 5 I have must be all faded from age, as they're the color I pictured above, and no longer black. So I had to match the aged look vs. making the horn black.
  

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #37 - Aug 17th, 2018 at 10:16pm
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I've also become very interested in the flocking you use,  Are Acraglass and the flocking both components of the bedding kit you mentioned?

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #38 - Aug 18th, 2018 at 3:34am
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Very nicely repaired ... that looks awesome.  If you didn't know better it would be tough to say it had been repaired at all!
  

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #39 - Aug 18th, 2018 at 10:14am
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Bill Lawrence wrote on Aug 17th, 2018 at 10:16pm:
I've also become very interested in the flocking you use,  Are Acraglass and the flocking both components of the bedding kit you mentioned?

Bill Lawrence


Acraglass is a Brownells product and sold as a liquid or gel. Brownells does add flocking that is simply ground up fiberglass to their gel kits, but it's white and not colored. I have several bedding kits made by another company that came with baggies of brown and black flocking, so I'm using the flocking from those kits as color and strengthening. Have to look at the boxes to see a brand, but they're very old kits and may not be sold today.
  

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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #40 - Aug 18th, 2018 at 2:41pm
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Great job Vall. That is a really nice rifle. I am glad to see it in your collection.
What will the next find be ?
  
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Re: Ballard #4 1/2 A-1 Mid Range
Reply #41 - Aug 20th, 2018 at 10:09am
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38-55Kidd wrote on Aug 18th, 2018 at 2:41pm:
Great job Vall. That is a really nice rifle. I am glad to see it in your collection.
What will the next find be ?


Thanks! 
Well I'm still hoping I'll find an affordable Zischang Ballard or Remington single shot some day!
  

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