Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Gun room humidity (Read 11880 times)
Fazer
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 248
Joined: Jun 9th, 2010
Gun room humidity
Aug 5th, 2018 at 11:16am
Print Post  
I have a de-humidifier running in the gun room. It is pulling water out as it should. Should I be worried about it getting too dry. I have lived in very dry places before with no problem to the guns. Just want to be sure.  Thanks
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
rgchristensen
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1103
Joined: Jan 2nd, 2014
Re: Gun room humidity
Reply #1 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 12:49pm
Print Post  
Fazer wrote on Aug 5th, 2018 at 11:16am:
I have a de-humidifier running in the gun room. It is pulling water out as it should. Should I be worried about it getting too dry. I have lived in very dry places before with no problem to the guns. Just want to be sure.  Thanks


     There is no use, corrosion-wise, to have it lower than 35-40%.   You could hook up a humidistat to shut off the de-humidifier at that point.

CHRIS
RGChristensen
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
calledflyer
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3585
Joined: Mar 9th, 2015
Re: Gun room humidity
Reply #2 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 1:14pm
Print Post  
darn, I better go pour water over my shootin' arns! Yesterday our humidity was substancially lower than 35 percent. Try NINE, and it'll do lower sometimes- I've seen it at four. Eat yer heart out Florida.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
John Boy
Ex Member


Re: Gun room humidity
Reply #3 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 7:36pm
Print Post  
It is recommended that ideal humidity/temperature for firearms is 50% RH and 70 degrees F
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzendave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Retired Ex-Shooter

Posts: 4075
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Joined: Jan 28th, 2005
Re: Gun room humidity
Reply #4 - Aug 25th, 2018 at 10:38am
Print Post  
When you live in a dry climate the wood tends to shrink and no longer fits tightly on the rifle.

So yes you can dry out the atmosphere too much.

Furniture made in England (more humid climate) drys out and cracks when imported to Alberta; including rifle stocks.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Chuckster
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2238
Location: Colorado
Joined: May 15th, 2008
Re: Gun room humidity
Reply #5 - Aug 25th, 2018 at 11:26am
Print Post  
Similar issue with gun-stock wood.
Buy wood that has been stored in an area similar to where you live.
If you buy wood from the humid East and live in the dry West, it will shrink or vis versa unless you let it sit for a year or so before working.
Chuck
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16274
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Gun room humidity
Reply #6 - Aug 25th, 2018 at 11:28am
Print Post  
Buying stock wood from someone you know and trust is extremely important! If the seller can't tell you where it came from or how long since it was cut, I'd pass on it.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
KFW
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 558
Location: Powell Wy.
Joined: Dec 18th, 2016
Re: Gun room humidity
Reply #7 - Aug 25th, 2018 at 6:22pm
Print Post  
Well.....when I moved to New Mexico from Michigan, my entire collection shrunk. new and old, severely. Family furniture heirlooms split also. Now in Montana, where it has a little more humidity, but the wood on my rifles has never come back to the metal flush, especially on the guns I built out of premium wood.
Stocked a plains rifle in March here using a 10 yr. old walnut blank, and now it is amazing to see the shrinkage in summer. 
Never ending ordeal I guess.
best
kw
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
svartkruttgris#369
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2980
Location: Colorado, Norway, Sweden
Joined: Oct 28th, 2014
Re: Gun room humidity
Reply #8 - Aug 25th, 2018 at 8:36pm
Print Post  
While I have seen and even bought old guns that had shrunken wooden stocks, I have yet to have any of mine shrink, including old ones that I had rehabed. Explanation is perhaps that all of mine are primarily hunting rifles, and therefore all the wood is sealed inside and out.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzenmiester
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6707
Location: Cool Wet Side of WA
Joined: Apr 27th, 2008
Re: Gun room humidity
Reply #9 - Aug 26th, 2018 at 11:37pm
Print Post  
The finest woodworkers allow for seasonal changes due to humidity.  The lack of issues is more likely due to the lack of exposure extremes.  zIf it was preventable, the finest furniture would have been exempted centuries ago.  Grin

I haven't had any problems running around the airid area of the west and returning to the coast, but this is not a short term issue.  Minor issues are seasonal.  Extreme cases can take a few years.
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16274
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Gun room humidity
Reply #10 - Aug 27th, 2018 at 10:38am
Print Post  
I think you're right Bob. Consistency in where the guns spend most of their time is important. But also feel that high temperatures are not good for any wood. My gun room is in our finished basement and the temperatures year around never vary much. Always between low 60's and high 70's at the warmest. In nearly 4 decades of my guns being in this basement gun room I've never seen any stock changes in my collection.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
svartkruttgris#369
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2980
Location: Colorado, Norway, Sweden
Joined: Oct 28th, 2014
Re: Gun room humidity
Reply #11 - Aug 27th, 2018 at 11:51am
Print Post  
Schuetzenmiester wrote on Aug 26th, 2018 at 11:37pm:
The finest woodworkers allow for seasonal changes due to humidity.  The lack of issues is more likely due to the lack of exposure extremes.  zIf it was preventable, the finest furniture would have been exempted centuries ago.  Grin


Actually, Nearly ALL of the professional wood workers I know of, some making musical instruments highly sensitive to changes in temp and humidity, refuse to seal the wood anywhere but on outer surfaces. This dooms them to take a number of well established methods to allow for expansion/shrinkage of unsealed wood. It also means users of wooden musical instruments have to do a lot of retuning, often after each tune.

We get to watch this incessant retuning of wooden string instruments every time our Swedish and Norwegian friends bring their violins and nyckleharpas to Colorado or we take ours to their countries. And, the sound  boxes of these wooden string instruments are made of dense, fine grained wood that has very small growth rings.

However, some makers of stringed wooden musical instruments, people with engineering backgrounds, have gone to sealing the inside of the sound boxes of their wooden musical instruments with light-weight sealants whose solid state vibrational properties are a close match to those of the wood used in these sound boxes. Note that this DOES NOT alter the thermal expansion properties of these special woods.

Your assumption about furniture makers does not apply to anything where wood must remain stable in applications where stability is highly important, eg, sound boxes of stringed wooden musical instruments. Tradition has been the limiting factor, at least as regards effects of moisture on changes in vibrational properties of wood. 

The extensive use of synthetic stocks on rifles would not have gained so much of its popularity IF everyone had properly and fully sealed ALL surfaces of their rifle stocks.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzenmiester
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6707
Location: Cool Wet Side of WA
Joined: Apr 27th, 2008
Re: Gun room humidity
Reply #12 - Aug 27th, 2018 at 12:48pm
Print Post  
The dramatic move to synthetic is most likely a purely price point driven move.  I have never heard of any public outcry about stocks splitting or the toes of but stocks falling off.  Grin. The typical general public shooter never notices a minor point of aim impact caused by firearm pressures.  Most can't shoot well enough to consistently to know the impact isn't their own fault.

Are any of those musical instruments made with the most highly susceptible species?  Are any of the allowed to be placed in extreme conditions for long periods of time other than by accident.  

The example cited by the OP is  a permanent move from one extreme to the other. I do not believe any amount is sealing will permanently prevent those issues.   Atmospheric control is the solution to keeping wood stable.
« Last Edit: Aug 27th, 2018 at 12:56pm by Schuetzenmiester »  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
svartkruttgris#369
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2980
Location: Colorado, Norway, Sweden
Joined: Oct 28th, 2014
Re: Gun room humidity
Reply #13 - Aug 27th, 2018 at 1:32pm
Print Post  
Schuetzenmiester wrote on Aug 27th, 2018 at 12:48pm:

Are any of those musical instruments made with the most highly susceptible species? 
Response: For use in sound boxes, very specific kinds of wood are used. This includes suitable species and especially growth patterns. Species need to have tight patterns of annual growth rings, with alternation of very strong and much weaker rings. This gives the wood excellent ability to transmit vibrations and to sustain "large" vibrational amplitudes. DO NOT use such pretty woods as many walnuts!! Especially with fancy wood!! Many decades ago a wood working hobbiest in Sweden made a nyckelharpa using some very nicely figured walnut. NO resonace, dead sound, fantastic wall hanger!! Just like some long guns.

Are any of the allowed to be placed in extreme conditions for long periods of time other than by accident. 

First, every highly skilled player of string instruments takes standard, fairly extreme measures to protect their instruments from high and low temperatures, such as not leaving them in autos on hot summer or freezing cold temps. This is primarily to protect the many glued joints in these instruments, joints that must remain intact under the large pressures from tightened strings.

Like target shooters? 


However, moving from hot, humid climates to cold dry or wet climates to very dry climates can wreck havoc with such musical instruments. SO, yes, owners, especially active players, take measures to avoid permanent damage. Other owners have been know to neglect such care and instruments can and do suffer degraded musical properties.

The example cited by the OP is  a permanent move from one extreme to the other. I do not believe any amount is sealing will permanently prevent those issues.   Atmospheric control is the solution to keeping wood stable.
"Permanently" prevent??? That is a rather severe requirement. Several of my turnbolt hunting rifles, with one peice wood stocks, sealed with penetrating wood finishes, eg., thinned True Oil, etc., have held their sight settings with my standard handloads over a few decades and hunts in heavy rains, wet snow, hot and freezing temperatures. Note: Corrections for dense air at low altitude vs thin air at high altitude, not considered at the shorter ranges my hunting shots have been taken (less than 150M, often less than 100M).

« Last Edit: Aug 27th, 2018 at 1:38pm by svartkruttgris#369 »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16274
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Gun room humidity
Reply #14 - Aug 27th, 2018 at 4:18pm
Print Post  
Bob,
I've read in recent years of guys putting stocks into those vacuum seal bags and then putting wood sealer of finish into the bag and drawing down a vacuum. The thought is to get the wood finish to penetrate as deep into the wood as possible and hopefully stop the wood from changing due to humidity or temps.
Unsure if it's a proven solution, and I don't know of any scientific testing done to see if this helps or hurts, or doesn't do anything at all.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Send TopicPrint