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Traditional rifle scope rules (Read 33271 times)

BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: Traditional rifle scope rules Reply #75 - Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 10:39am	Print Post
	Shouldn't a 20x scope make a 200 yard target appear as if it were 10 yards away from your firing point?

	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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Redsetter Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3468 Location: New York Joined: Aug 6^th, 2013	Re: Traditional rifle scope rules Reply #76 - Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 10:46am	Print Post
	westerner wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 10:34am: I'm lost. If I have to shoot old dead guy scopes, I'd just as soon shoot iron sights. Think I can score higher. Joe. Other shooters must have thought so too (though I doubt very many of them were septuagenarians), because if you look at the 1903 equipment list I referred to, about half of them were still using peeps.


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Redsetter Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3468 Location: New York Joined: Aug 6^th, 2013	Re: Traditional rifle scope rules Reply #77 - Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 10:49am	Print Post
	westerner wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 10:42am: Yes. Have you ever looked through one of those old long scopes? Joe On a bright day, not too bad, except for the very narrow field, but with very much overcast, the lights go out.


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BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: Traditional rifle scope rules Reply #78 - Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 10:52am	Print Post
	westerner wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 10:42am: Yes. Have you ever looked through one of those old long scopes? Joe Yep. Also have a few of the old Parsons long scopes... they're nice, clear, bright scopes.

	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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Redsetter Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3468 Location: New York Joined: Aug 6^th, 2013	Re: Traditional rifle scope rules Reply #79 - Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 11:19am	Print Post
	BP wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 10:52am: Also have a few of the old Parsons long scopes... they're nice, clear, bright scopes. A FEW? I was never able to afford one.


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BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: Traditional rifle scope rules Reply #80 - Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 12:10pm	Print Post
	Redsetter wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 11:19am: BP wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 10:52am: Also have a few of the old Parsons long scopes... they're nice, clear, bright scopes. A FEW? I was never able to afford one. Sounds like we each chose to spend our money on different things.

	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7249 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Traditional rifle scope rules Reply #81 - Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 12:14pm	Print Post
	Redsetter wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 10:49am: westerner wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 10:42am: Yes. Have you ever looked through one of those old long scopes? Joe On a bright day, not too bad, except for the very narrow field, but with very much overcast, the lights go out. This is exactly why the scope rules don't meet the pre WWI mission statement. I have modified the Mossberg scopes, to ~12.5X, 476mm objective lens and 39mm ocular cell FL. With it's small FOV, it's still great on a clear day but, on a cloudy day, it's still shootable but dim, when compared to my 1 1/8, ~12X early Fecker. Frank

	ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Traditional rifle scope rules Reply #82 - Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 12:19pm	Print Post
	Why not just use a 50% light reduction filter to address the shortage of dim scopes?

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: Traditional rifle scope rules Reply #83 - Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 12:28pm	Print Post
	frnkeore wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 12:14pm: Redsetter wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 10:49am: westerner wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 10:42am: Yes. Have you ever looked through one of those old long scopes? Joe On a bright day, not too bad, except for the very narrow field, but with very much overcast, the lights go out. This is exactly why the scope rules don't meet the pre WWI mission statement. I have modified the Mossberg scopes, to ~12.5X, 476mm objective lens and 39mm ocular cell FL. With it's small FOV, it's still great on a clear day but, on a cloudy day, it's still shootable but dim, when compared to my 1 1/8, ~12X early Fecker. Frank Frank, Good idea! Bob, Do you think that filter will need to be added to the rules?
	« Last Edit: Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 12:33pm by BP »
	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Traditional rifle scope rules Reply #84 - Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 12:59pm	Print Post
	Frank so are you now saying that any of the Sniper Scopes or faithful reproductions of those used in World 1 should be legal to use?

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: Traditional rifle scope rules Reply #85 - Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 1:10pm	Print Post
	John, If I recall correctly, Carlos Hathcock used SuperTargetspots, and *did* use Unertl's. If you open the following link to Cornell Pubs, then read over on the righthand side, it mentions that Cataract Rifle Scopes were " Tested by the U S Government " , and mentions " Lee Enfield with a 12 Diameter Military Telescopes ". (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
	« Last Edit: Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 1:16pm by BP »
	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7249 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Traditional rifle scope rules Reply #86 - Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 1:17pm	Print Post
	JLouis wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 12:59pm: Frank so are you now saying that any of the Sniper Scopes or faithful reproductions of those used in World 1 should be legal to use? If the model was made prior to the war, not after the war started. Rules read "prior to the onset of WWI" You'll have to talk to the National Schuetzenmeister to see if internal adjusting scopes would be allowed. I didn't make the rules, ASSRA did and I had no input in forming them. But, if they say, only equipment made prior to WWI so, that you can "compete" with the ODG's, that is what it should be. Randy and I are pointing out that that type equipment, is now available and meets the mission statement. You can surly put lenses in your tube sight and have one of the Sidel 20x scopes, can't you? But, then, your shooting equipment doesn't comply with the rules anyway. So, I fail to see your concern, regarding the scopes. Frank
	« Last Edit: Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 1:23pm by frnkeore »
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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Traditional rifle scope rules Reply #87 - Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 1:50pm	Print Post
	BP wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 12:28pm: Bob, Do you think that filter will need to be added to the rules? How else will the ODGs stand a chance?

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Traditional rifle scope rules Reply #88 - Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 1:56pm	Print Post
	But the Targetspots, Fecker's, Unertl's, Litchert's etc. do clearly comply with the rules do they not. You continue to proclaim you will not deviate from the rules but will strictly adhere to them so I do not understand what it is you do not seem to clearly understand regarding the current rules? The ISSA, ASSRA and Wyoming Schuetzen Union clearly call out by name and cleary state that the Lyman, Unertl, Fecker, and Litchert scopes do indeed meet their Traditional Class rules. Rules are Rules are they not? JLouis

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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jfeldman ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1079 Location: Imperial Beach, Ca Joined: Nov 5^th, 2005	Re: Traditional rifle scope rules Reply #89 - Jul 23^rd, 2018 at 2:08pm	Print Post
	I think Blindeye has the best outlook............ "Me too. That'd apply to all the rules. I don't have anywhere near the experience of many. But, whenever I was at a match; it was nothing like the impression I'd get from the Forum. Everyone was welcoming, helpful. I don't recall anyone mentioning the rules. There was no need. I'd ordered a copy previously. I already knew how the match was run by observing before participating. The forum gives a false, and very negative impression of the ASSRA; in my opinion. If I posted more often; I might contribute to the negativity rather than counter it. People can seem far different in person than an impression gained from words on a screen." Just take the rifle equipment you want to shoot. Show up and shoot. They'll put you in the right class. Have fun. Regards, Joe


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