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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Traditional rifle scope rules (Read 33235 times)
JLouis
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Re: Traditional rifle scope rules
Reply #135 - Jul 24th, 2018 at 7:46pm
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Frank it really doesn't matter I wasn't there and I am just happy I still have Schuetzen matches to go out and shoot and more than happy to play by the existing rules. If anyone does not like the rules there are other Shooting Sports one can get into and I would encourage them to do so instead of all the current crying for not being able to get ones way and I would wish them the very best.

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JLouis
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Re: Traditional rifle scope rules
Reply #136 - Jul 24th, 2018 at 7:51pm
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Bill just ask Jeff Schultz he is the current Schuetzen Meister for the ASSRA and I am in no position to speak on his behalf.

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Redsetter
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Re: Traditional rifle scope rules
Reply #137 - Jul 24th, 2018 at 7:54pm
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Bill Lawrence wrote on Jul 24th, 2018 at 7:38pm:
From my research, it seems most likely that the scope is among those Niedner modified in early 1917. 


Could have been, but he only produced about 500 before the FBI caused his contract to be cancelled for alleged "German sympathies"--part of the anti-German hysteria deliberately whipped up by Wilson.  Afterwards, the evidence seems to be that very competent USMC armorers built them.  What was or was not done by Niedner, WRA, USMC, is a tremendously complicated subject hotly debated by military collectors.  But regardless of who built those mounts, they are now worth their weight in gold.
  
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JLouis
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Re: Traditional rifle scope rules
Reply #138 - Jul 24th, 2018 at 9:36pm
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Frank I know you have a tremendous amount of passion in what you have to share and I highly encourage you to run for an open seat on the board of directors where you can actually get something accomplished. It is not going to happen here and along with Scott Elliott we would then have two West Coast representatives and look at what Scott alone has accomplished for this sport.

JLouis
  

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Bill Lawrence
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Re: Traditional rifle scope rules
Reply #139 - Jul 24th, 2018 at 9:58pm
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But regardless of who built those (Mann-Niedner) mounts, they are now worth their weight in gold.

Ain't it the truth!  I'd bet I could offer the scope and mounts (which are near mint) on eBay with "sniper" in the title and recover more than I paid for the whole Pope outfit 30+ years ago.

Not that I'm gonna.

Bill Lawrence

  
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JerryH
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Re: Traditional rifle scope rules
Reply #140 - Jul 25th, 2018 at 12:27am
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I usually stay out of these "discussions" and I really have no dog in this hunt, but here goes anyhow. 

I shoot traditional rifles for the most part, and abide by the rules as they are now. I really don't care if they stay the same or get changed.

I shot my first ISSA Regional in 2010 at Modesto and have a Traditional Rifle bar along with some other bars from that match. That's the only time I've received anything indicating I shot a Traditional Rifle at the Regionals or the two monthly matches I shoot at.

Not complaining at all. Makes no difference to me. I come to shoot and have a good time. I sit and shoot next to modern actions with modern scopes sometimes, and our scores all get reported the same. I just like the looks of a Traditional rifle so that's what I use.

Will I buy a lesser powered scope just to stay in the Traditional class (if the rules change) when it isn't even anything that is recognized at the matches I attend.

No. Because if you all start down that rabbit hole what's next?

I wonder..............what type of spotting scopes were used by the ODGs. I'm guessing most likely not anything seen on the firing line now.

Seems only fair, don't you think?

JerryH

  

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frnkeore
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Re: Traditional rifle scope rules
Reply #141 - Jul 25th, 2018 at 1:02pm
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Hi Jerry,
I'm glad to see you weigh in.

It's not a rabbit hole, it's only eliminating the one exception in the rules, to the 1917 criteria, nothing else.

I'm not suggesting at anyone wear anything period or use anything else modern or period.

I could see the opposition, if I were suggesting that because we allow the more modern externals that we also allow modern internals, after all, there were internally adjusted scopes in that time period but, I'm not! I actually think that there would be more support for that.

Does anyone actually think that, when the rules where drawn, that the scope exception would be in those rule, if period type scopes would have been available?

I won't say any more,

Frank

« Last Edit: Jul 25th, 2018 at 1:13pm by frnkeore »  

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Traditional rifle scope rules
Reply #142 - Jul 25th, 2018 at 1:44pm
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This is the first time I ever heard anything about clicks on scopes.  The Rule talks about iron sights after specifically allowing Lymans, Unertls, ect.  How many specifically allowed Lymans and Unertls are there going to be without clicks in the mounts?   Huh
  

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JLouis
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Re: Traditional rifle scope rules
Reply #143 - Jul 25th, 2018 at 2:18pm
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BobZ I believe the clicks only pertain to the Tube Sights not Scopes in the ISSA Traditional rules not sure about WSU. This could easily be amended and I know of no one de-clicking their mounts and it would be Silly for one to do so. It is something I am not willing to do or to even consider doing. All though I believe Randy Wright was looking into de-clicking his at one point in time. I have owned a couple Unertl's and a Fecker Tube Sight and the mounts all had clicks and where I got one set of my mounts when I built my tube sight. It would only make sense seeing that clicks on Scopes seems to be fine to go ahead and allow them on tube sights as well as that is the way they were made.

JLouis
  

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Traditional rifle scope rules
Reply #144 - Jul 25th, 2018 at 2:52pm
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I have no idea why clicks would be an issue other than a bickering point.  As has been pointed out they can be quite confusing and a crutch that leads to not reading the scale. The way the rules is written with clicks following scopes, it can easily be interpreted either way, depending on motivation and point of view.  Undecided
  

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BP
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Re: Traditional rifle scope rules
Reply #145 - Jul 25th, 2018 at 3:10pm
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Schuetzenmiester wrote on Jul 25th, 2018 at 1:44pm:
This is the first time I ever heard anything about clicks on scopes.  The Rule talks about iron sights after specifically allowing Lymans, Unertls, ect.  How many specifically allowed Lymans and Unertls are there going to be without clicks in the mounts?   Huh

Good question, Bob.
I've made click-less knobs for some of my Lyman rear mounts... 
and agree with Boat's post regarding clicks.
  

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JLouis
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Re: Traditional rifle scope rules
Reply #146 - Jul 25th, 2018 at 3:11pm
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I totaly agree with Westerner and all this bickering is not doing the sport we so Love and Enjoy any real justice. Those of us who have been in the sport for so long understand everything that is being argued over. But it is also enough to turn off some of the new folks here who might be thinking about getting into the sport I know it would me. It's the most enjoyable and user friendly shooting sport that one could ever hope to get into but it damned sure is not coming across that way here.
  

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BP
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Re: Traditional rifle scope rules
Reply #147 - Jul 25th, 2018 at 3:14pm
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John,
Why don't we make it even easier to have fun, and just get rid of all the pesky rules?
That should take a lot of weight off of Bob's shoulders too!    Wink

  

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JLouis
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Re: Traditional rifle scope rules
Reply #148 - Jul 25th, 2018 at 4:38pm
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Rule #1 Have Fun: Rule #2 There Are No More Rules. BP does that sound about right and more than enough.
  

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Bill Lawrence
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Re: Traditional rifle scope rules
Reply #149 - Jul 25th, 2018 at 4:52pm
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Why don't we make it even easier to have fun, and just get rid of all the pesky rules?

On the assumption that this is a serious question, because the discipline of rules is needed to support and maintain the purpose and existence of an organization.

In other words, without rules we'd cease being the ASSRA, or indeed any kind of sustainable group at all.  "Having fun" is not by itself a tie that binds for long or deeply.

Bill Lawrence
  
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