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Ballard .44-100 bullets. (Read 4490 times)

marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Ballard .44-100 bullets. Jul 5^th, 2018 at 3:24pm	Print Post
	Back in 1875 Marlin brought out the #7 Ballard Long Range rifle for Creedmoor match shooting. UMC provided the brass and bullets, but nobody ever provided complete cartridges as owners shooting these 800-1000 yd. matches always loaded their own. I was looking at the Cast Boolits forum almost a year ago and saw a member post that he had acquired some new old stock boxes of .44 cal. 530 grain paper patched Union Metallic Cartridge Co. marked bullets for the Ballard rifle. I sent him a PM asking if he'd part with any, but never got a reply until 2 weeks ago! He told me he'd be glad to sell however many I wanted, and since I have a #7 Long Range Ballard, I purchased a box of original bullets. Wish I could have purchased the 10 unopened boxes still wrapped in tan paper and tied with a string that he had! But much more than I could justify spending, so I only got this one box. But it's pretty nice for being 140 years old! (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)

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Old-Win Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1667 Location: Minnesota Joined: Nov 24^th, 2005	Re: Ballard .44-100 bullets. Reply #1 - Jul 5^th, 2018 at 3:32pm	Print Post
	Vall, could you post a picture of the base of the bullet? It appears to be cup shaped. I'm curious to know what they did with the bottom of the patch? Is it twisted or just laying in there? Could you mic a bullet and also compare it to the bore diameter of your rifle? Thanks.


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Ballard .44-100 bullets. Reply #2 - Jul 5^th, 2018 at 3:38pm	Print Post
	Old-Win wrote on Jul 5^th, 2018 at 3:32pm: Vall, could you post a picture of the base of the bullet? It appears to be cup shaped. I'm curious to know what they did with the bottom of the patch? Is it twisted or just laying in there? Could you mic a bullet and also compare it to the bore diameter of your rifle? Thanks. Yes, they are cupped bases like most old paper patched bullets. The paper is twisted as it's fitted into the cupped base. I have a box of .38-55-255 JM Marlin marked paper patch bullets, and they are done exactly the same. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) My bore is the typical Ballard .44-100 size of around .451" and these bullets measure .444"!! Either UMC got things wrong, or the hollow base bumps up a lot! I have a paper patch bullet mold that came with my Ballard #7 and it measures .446" without paper! I think my mold is a brass Old West brand mold, and custom built for my gun.
	« Last Edit: Jul 5^th, 2018 at 3:43pm by marlinguy »
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Old-Win Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1667 Location: Minnesota Joined: Nov 24^th, 2005	Re: Ballard .44-100 bullets. Reply #3 - Jul 5^th, 2018 at 5:59pm	Print Post
	Thanks Vall for the information and a very nice find you have there with great history. Why do they call the Ballard a 44-100 if it had a .451bore? Another one of those great mysterys?


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Ballard .44-100 bullets. Reply #4 - Jul 5^th, 2018 at 6:39pm	Print Post
	Old-Win wrote on Jul 5^th, 2018 at 5:59pm: Thanks Vall for the information and a very nice find you have there with great history. Why do they call the Ballard a 44-100 if it had a .451bore? Another one of those great mysterys? Good question, but it wasn't just Ballard that used a .451" groove for a .44 caliber cartridge. The .44 Sharps and Remington .44 used the same size bore. What is also interesting is Marlin only offered the .44-100 Ballard for one year, (1875) and then opened it up to .457" and called it the .45-100 Ballard.

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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Ballard .44-100 bullets. Reply #5 - Jul 5^th, 2018 at 6:53pm	Print Post
	Vall, Too bad those bullets are too small for your bore.

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Ballard .44-100 bullets. Reply #6 - Jul 5^th, 2018 at 7:10pm	Print Post
	Schuetzenmiester wrote on Jul 5^th, 2018 at 6:53pm: Vall, Too bad those bullets are too small for your bore. Yeah, now I need to cast some up since I can't shoot these!

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Joe Do... Oldtimer ASSRA Board Member ASSRA Journal Editor Offline Posts: 583 Location: 'burbs of Chicago Joined: May 19^th, 2012	Re: Ballard .44-100 bullets. Reply #7 - Jul 5^th, 2018 at 7:16pm	Print Post
	Nice work Vall! Often times it’s more difficult to find the right accessories (e.g. reloading tools, original cartridges, etc) to go with a rifle. Collecting cartridges is another black hole that you can be sucked into. Sometimes I buy vintage boxed cartridges or shells just because some day I might own a rifle in that caliber ... ha! That’s a hard to find box ... nicely done! Joe


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bruce moulds Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 290 Location: the antipodes Joined: Mar 14^th, 2015	Re: Ballard .44-100 bullets. Reply #8 - Jul 7^th, 2018 at 11:34pm	Print Post
	patched to bore or groove? in those days, bore diameter often decided calibre, whereas now groove dia decides this. it just happened that a lot of the 44s were just that in the bore, but 45 in the groove. vall, any intimation of alloy? keep safe, bruce.

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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Ballard .44-100 bullets. Reply #9 - Jul 8^th, 2018 at 12:56pm	Print Post
	bruce moulds wrote on Jul 7^th, 2018 at 11:34pm: patched to bore or groove? in those days, bore diameter often decided calibre, whereas now groove dia decides this. it just happened that a lot of the 44s were just that in the bore, but 45 in the groove. vall, any intimation of alloy? keep safe, bruce. Thanks for that info! I've often wondered why many of the old .44 caliber American cartridges would actually slug to .45 caliber groove size? No idea of alloy, and unless I could test them without leaving a mark, I never will know. I suspect they'd be fairly soft, but it's just a guess.

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Quarter_Bore Oldtimer Offline Posts: 817 Location: Joined: Dec 16^th, 2005	Re: Ballard .44-100 bullets. Reply #10 - Jul 8^th, 2018 at 1:09pm	Print Post
	Sometimes the alloy is marked on the bullet boxes. 1:14 and 1:16 seem to come up. I found that strange when I first saw it. I always thought they were soft. Maybe this idea was left over from muzzle loading days.


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bruce moulds Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 290 Location: the antipodes Joined: Mar 14^th, 2015	Re: Ballard .44-100 bullets. Reply #11 - Jul 8^th, 2018 at 6:54pm	Print Post
	there exist examples of long range bullets between 1:11 and 1:14. i have never seen any old ones softer than 1:14. the odg experimented with alloys in this zone as well as paper thickness. this for long range ammo, patched to bore. it is thought that they used harder alloys to minimize nose slump and therefore maintain a higher b.c. i shoot 12:1 at long range, and it requires 1 to 2 moa less comeup than 16:1. this in itself is not an issue, but the reduced wind deflection that comes with it is of value. 20:1 was a more common alloy for hunting ammo, and 45/70 mil ammo was 16:1, albeit greasers. keep safe, bruce.

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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Ballard .44-100 bullets. Reply #12 - Jul 8^th, 2018 at 8:30pm	Print Post
	No markings on this box beyond what is seen in the images. The side simply reads: .44 530 Grs. Paper Patched.

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bruce moulds Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 290 Location: the antipodes Joined: Mar 14^th, 2015	Re: Ballard .44-100 bullets. Reply #13 - Jul 9^th, 2018 at 3:43am	Print Post
	vall, you might find this interesting. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) keep safe, bruce.

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bruce moulds Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 290 Location: the antipodes Joined: Mar 14^th, 2015	Re: Ballard .44-100 bullets. Reply #14 - Jul 9^th, 2018 at 5:59am	Print Post
	vall, here is another link you might find interesting, thanks to research press. these bullets are from a different maker, but seem to share a generic type. these a patched to a generous bore diameter 45 cal, or tight in a std 45 cal bore. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links). keep safe, bruce.

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