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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) bullet choice for 40/65 (Read 15622 times)
beltfed
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #15 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 8:58pm
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Here are pics of the shooting with my 40-65 HiWall, 16 twist with my 370 gr Elliptical Minigroove bullet cut for me by Steve Brooks.
The one was shooting a long range match.  800yds.
Group only a bit over a minute of elevation 
The other one was a 100 yds 5 shot group.  Kiss(pulled one
slightly to 1:00.
Velocity of the load is 1373fps.   
  
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beltfed
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #16 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 9:02pm
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Oh, note that the bullet is tapered so can seat it out on to the lands. AND get lots of powder under it. Later load is
now up to 75 gr. Swiss 1.5/ 1400fps.
Now "graduated" to a DDEPP bullet- paper patched dual diameters. See next reply.
beltfed/arnie
  
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beltfed
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #17 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 9:09pm
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Here is my DDEPP 40 cal  dual diameter paper patched bullet designed for 16 twist 40-65 --100yds group.
Bullets/clocking 1400fps over 75 gr Swiss 1.5 are stabile to 1K yds 
and the rest of my 40 cal bullets for 40-72-12 twist on left and 40-65 16 twist on right.

  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #18 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 9:31pm
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beltfed wrote on Jun 24th, 2018 at 9:09pm:
Here is my DDEPP 40 cal  dual diameter paper patched bullet designed for 16 twist 40-65 --100yds group.
Bullets/clocking 1400fps over 75 gr Swiss 1.5 are stabile to 1K yds 
and the rest of my 40 cal bullets for 40-72-12 twist on left and 40-65 16 twist on right.


Does that PP dual diameter extend into the rifling?  What does DDEPP stand for?
  

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beltfed
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #19 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 9:32pm
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Oh, note my 2004 "pre-money money bullet" 4th from right
for my 12 twist 40-72.
1.54" long and 460 gr.-- "before graduating to PP bullets"

  
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beltfed
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #20 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 9:37pm
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Schuetzenmeister,
The base band dia is "patch to FF case I.D. and
extends into the freebore. Front tapered PPed shoulder of this base band seats into the Leade in front of freebore. The body is "patch to land dia" to slip snugly onto the lands. 
DDEPP :  Dual Diameter Elliptical Paper Patched. 
beltfed/arnie
  
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beltfed
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #21 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 9:43pm
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MickB,
Especially considering your eye issue,
Lighter bullets will have less recoil...
My 370 gr bullets,tho cranking 1400fps are a 
"pussycat" to shoot.
beltfed/arnie
  
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Mick B
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #22 - Jun 25th, 2018 at 8:17am
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Arnie
I have ordered the BACo 410 gr bullet #JIM409415P1 to give it a try in the 40/65.  How did you manage 1400 fps using black powder ?, sounds like it would take a lot of compression to get enough in to the case.
With the chamber my rifle has a cartridge of 3.050" length has the bullet touching the lands when there is 60 gr of PP in the case with a .060" over powder wad and about .050"of powder compression. Using this amount of powder and the same bullet in my 40/60 ( 400gr Money Bullet ) I was only getting just over 1,200 fps but accuracy was very good.
Lots of things to try and plenty of time to do it, took me about a year to get my 40/60 to where it is now.
Mike.
  
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beltfed
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #23 - Jun 25th, 2018 at 9:01am
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MickB
As you can see by my photos,
My bullets, the 370 gr Elliptical Minigroove and
the DDEPP are profiled/"tapered" such that they can be seated out with only about 0.100" into the case. The front
part of the bullet bodies are at Land dia, so will slip up into the bore for great concentricity.
So, I can easily get 75 gr of Swiss 1.5 into
my formed/ fire formed WW cases (from 45-70). I use a 0.060" LDPE wad over the powder, with only about 0.050"
compression.  They clock 1400fps over my Oehler Chronograph. And my relatively low come ups for the longer
ranges essentially verify the muzzle velocities.
The other "half" of the story is that my bullets are only 1.325" long, so they are stabile out to 1K from my 16 twist 40-65. The usual +- 400 gr 40 cal bullets are close to 1.4"
long and do not stabilize out to long range in 16 twist.
beltfed/arnie

  
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gunlaker
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #24 - Jun 25th, 2018 at 3:13pm
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bruce moulds wrote on Jun 24th, 2018 at 5:23pm:
cw,
13 twist and a 1.5" long elliptical pp works well for me out to 1000.
chris,
i like the sound of your 2.6" 15 lb gun.
i can get 100 gns swiss 1.5 or 1.0 in the 2.4" case.
but mine is a greaser chamber though.
how deep are your bullets in the case.?
keep safe,
bruce.


In Dan's chambers I've been seating to 0.115" in the case whether it's the .45-2.1, .45-2.4", or .45-2.6".

I am away from my notes, but I'm pretty sure that's only 0.030"-0.060" compression with a single 0.060" LDPE wad.  I did try 105gr of Swiss 1.5 but it was too much of a good thing Smiley.

Chris.

  
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Mick B
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #25 - Jun 25th, 2018 at 8:23pm
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Arnie
I had a seniors moment and missed the bit in your post about the 75 gr of Swiss hence my question regarding how you got 1,400 fps. Perish the thought, but for a moment I thought you may have used smokeless powder, I'm ashamed that such an awful thought could have even come into my head concerning a person of you character.
The new bullet I have ordered from BACo is slightly shorter at 1.370" than either the 400gr and 420gr Money bullets I have so it should work OK in the 16 twist. We shall see.
Mike.
  
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Old-Win
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #26 - Jun 26th, 2018 at 10:37am
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Mick, I think you made a wise choice on your bullet selection.  Some of the advise your getting, is from shooters trying to push a 40-65 to 1000yds. You're only looking for accuracy to 200yds so why try to push a round to the edge of stability?  I don't think there are many schuetzen shooters left that are shooting 38-55's with black powder.  If so, they might have the 200 yd answer that you're looking for.
As far as shooting the lighter calibers and the faster twist race, I've watched some good scores shot with them in one or two relays but I've never seen one able to hold up for the entire one or two day match.  Lot of stuff theorized on paper but I'm still waiting to see consistent results.  I'm glad I didn't jump into that foray.  Bob
  
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beltfed
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #27 - Jun 26th, 2018 at 2:26pm
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Joe,
How long are each of those Ron Long bullets?
tx
beltfed/arnie
  
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beltfed
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #28 - Jun 26th, 2018 at 2:33pm
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Mick B
FWIW, I would have ordered the Tapered:
JIM409410M4, which has front three bands at
0.400,0.400,0.402" for enabling seating it out
onto the lands for great concentricity/alignment.
AND enable larger powder charges.
This is the famous Jim Kidwell winning money bullet.
beltfed/arnie
  
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beltfed
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #29 - Jun 26th, 2018 at 3:08pm
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Old Win.
My work with the lighter bullets in my 40-65 is to 
have the best stability and accuracy at all ranges.
Not Just to shoot to 1 K, tho that was indeed one of
my goals. Look at the combo of my grouping at 100yds,
and my grouping ( when I was a better shooter, better eyes,etc) at out to long range. Notwithstanding floaters-etc,
this year, I placed 3rd BR in the Eau Claire (200yds) BPCR
Iron sight Schuetzen match
In Mike B case, he mentions shooting 100,200 yds.
And, seems to me reduced recoil would be nice for him, too.
The lighter bullets are accurate in the 40-65 16 twist, as well
as a "pussycat" to shoot.
beltfed/arnie
  
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