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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) bullet choice for 40/65 (Read 15590 times)
Mick B
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bullet choice for 40/65
Jun 23rd, 2018 at 8:58pm
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I have currently have three moulds for my 40/60 which may well prove suitable for use in my newly completed Meacham Hi Wall 40/65. However as you can never have too many moulds I'm soliciting opinions on other styles that may work better than what I have now.
The three moulds are all from BACo
JIM409395C1
JIM409400M4
JIM409420M2
The bulk of out shooting in the Canberra Black Powder Club is done off the bench at 100 and 200 mtrs, nothing further.
Mike.
  
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beltfed
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #1 - Jun 23rd, 2018 at 10:41pm
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What is the twist of the new 40-65?
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #2 - Jun 23rd, 2018 at 11:04pm
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The gyroscopic spin (Sg) of 1.4 to 2.0 is recommended.
An Sg just over 2.0 (overspinning) is recommended to adjust for drag losses when shooting long distance (1,000 yards).

Assuming 1,200 fps and normal temperatures and atmospheric pressures:

JIM409395C1  395 grain Creedmoor Sg=2.09 16:1 twist
JIM409400M4  400 grain Money Sg= 1.94 16:1 twist
JIM409420M2  420 grain Money Tapered 1st Band Sg=1.85 16:1 twist

Any of these bullets will work fine shooting short distances.

I have found the bullets used in my .40-60 Maynard (CPA Stevens 44 1/2) work the same in my .40-65 WCF(1874 Shiloh Sharps). Both have a 16:1 twist.

However I found you need to get the Money bullets going at least 1,250 fps to stabilize them out to 550 yards and longer.

I use a 410 grain Boomer Money and a 425 grain Paul Jones Creedmore.
I can shoot the 425 grain Creedmore at longer distances at slower velocities than the 410 Money bullet.

But at 1,250 fps the Money has 1 MOA accuracy at 880 yards. I use Swiss FFFg to increase my speed because I have no leade in my rifle.
« Last Edit: Jun 26th, 2018 at 1:01pm by Schuetzendave »  
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gunlaker
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #3 - Jun 23rd, 2018 at 11:51pm
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It depends on your rifle's chamber and barrel, but in my Shiloh rifles in .40-65 the BACO 409400m4 bullet is very accurate.  If I was to shoot at only 100 and 200, I would actually use the Saeco #740 bullet believe it or not.  In both of my rifles, one 1:16 twist, and the other 1:14 twist, the Saeco is just a little more accurate at the closer distances.  Right up to around 300 yards.

Chris.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #4 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 12:31am
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In my 40-65 the most accurate bullet at 200 was the 385 grain Lyman Schmitzer (410660) but the pointed design became erratic in the wind out past 300.
  
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bruce moulds
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #5 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 1:28am
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chris, 
you are a wiley old fox having a 14" twist. Wink
never hurts to hedge your bets. Cool
that should shoot the kidwell bullet pretty well.
now you just need a dual diameter pp mould to live the dream. Cheesy
keep safe,
bruce.
P.S.
that barrel is crying out to have a 40/82 reamer run into it.
then you won't ever need a 45 again. Undecided
  

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Mick B
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #6 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 9:34am
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Beltfed
My new Hi Wall has a GM barrel with a 16 twist, as I have just had a cataract removed from my right eye I cannot shoot for a few days yet according to the surgeon.
An examination of my eye is being done on the second of next month when I hope to get the all clear. At that time serious testing can start depending on how my vision is. After the operation the right hand lens in my current glasses is now useless so testing will be done using the scope rather than the iron sights.
Mike.
  
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gunlaker
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #7 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 9:51am
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Bruce I went with the 1:14 twist on the new rifle based on a few things.  First was when Dan Theodore told me that the BACO 409400M4, when shot out of a 1:16 twist rifle, marginally stable out to 600 yards, but less so than a 1.45" money bullet out of a .45.    The other was shooting midrange with Bryan Y. and seeing how his rifle performed.

The new rifle seems to hold vertical a little bit better at 600, but truthfully, they are both superb.

I don't think I'll ever go with a larger capacity .40.   I have a lot of work to do on my .45-2.4" and 2.6" rifles.   I'm at the point where all of my rifles are capable of master class scores.  It's just the lack of ability to practice in the wind that's holding me back.  I'm very close to NRA master class in midrange, but a long ways off for long range.  I'd love to be able to practice more but geographically it's difficult.

You would like the .45-2.6" rifle I think.  It's a 15 lb Shiloh with an RKS barrel chambered with Dan T's PP reamer.  I haven't shot it as much as I need to, but it's superbly accurate with 100gr of Swiss Fg and a .445" PJ Money bullet. 

Chris.
  
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CW
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #8 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 1:51pm
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A 14T might be Okay. 
I have 16T rifles, 14.5GM and 13T Lilja 40's.
I would be more open to trying a 15T than going faster. 

I used to think faster was great but experience has shown different. That stinking 13T is prone to fits of temperamental behavior.  It is a big price to pay for small and or imagined improvements. 
A fully stable shorter bullet in a 16T with fewer bad habits, while learning to read the conditions might be my optimum.     

You can't go wrong with a 16T 40 barrel and 400gr money bullet or its equal, to get the feel of things, and after you are very experienced, try more fussy combinations.
  
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #9 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 5:10pm
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At 200yds I dont think you can do much better than the lyman snover (Ron Long design ) and no need to hotrod it.
  
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #10 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 5:23pm
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The BAC # for that mould would be 409415P1 and have them cut it .001 over your groove dia. Or just buy the Lyman 410663 for less than $80.
  
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bruce moulds
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #11 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 5:23pm
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cw,
13 twist and a 1.5" long elliptical pp works well for me out to 1000.
chris,
i like the sound of your 2.6" 15 lb gun.
i can get 100 gns swiss 1.5 or 1.0 in the 2.4" case.
but mine is a greaser chamber though.
how deep are your bullets in the case.?
keep safe,
bruce.
  

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CW
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #12 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 6:43pm
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Bruce wrote:  "cw,
13 twist and a 1.5" long elliptical pp works well for me out to 1000."

That has not been my experience with mine. I just have the one rifle, so it may be it is a problem child. However, I will not be building a second 13 twist to find out. I have found with 40 and more then one 45 16T, along with the fast twist comes other problems and so we find there is a balance in there, a sweet spot.  It is all trade-offs.
I always have encouraged anyone with ideas to test them out. Match day always brings out their new brainchild for the everyone to see perform, cuss and discuss while passing time in the pits.

...I know half a world away makes that hard.

CW
  
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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #13 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 7:11pm
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For 40-65 I used (16:1 twist) three bullets commonly gave near 1,0" 100yd 5-shot groups. One I liked best was Saeco 640 370 grains, which was really good at 300M pigs. Others were Lyman 400 grain Stöver (410633), good ram bullet, and Lyman 425 grain 410655. Never used the 425 grainer in BPCR because of the extra recoil but it was my intended hunting bullet because of its flat point and small groups.

Have always viewed the "fancy" tapered lands bullets as best used for heaver loads (bullet seated well into lands) and 500M or further shooting. It might have been my best rams bullet but the recoil of heavier loads took its toll.
  
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bruce moulds
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Re: bullet choice for 40/65
Reply #14 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 7:22pm
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cw,
i have shot out a 13 twist 40 cal barrel, and bought another one.
at ranges from 300 to 1000 yds with pp bullets.
best score was at 900 yds where i dropped 3 points on the icfra target.
it keeps up to an 18 twist 45/2.4 in the wind, and for vert, loaded with 90 gns of swiss 1.5 and a 540 gn money greaser.
keep safe,
bruce.
  

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