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Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles (Read 9957 times)

marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles May 21^st, 2018 at 9:26pm	Print Post
	Couple Ballard rifles I picked up at the CGCA show in Denver. First is a custom offhand rifle with a Stevens-Pope 30" half octagon .32-40 barrel. The rifle scope is a JW Fecker built in the late 1920's when Fecker was in Cleveland, Oh. The stocks are birdseye maple, with Schoyen buttplate and a palmrest with relocation adapter to get it closer to the shooter. It also is fitted with a small grip adapter on the loop lever. The barrel has no sight dovetails, and has the rollstamp on the 45 flat. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) The other is a standard JM Marlin Ballard with heavy flat side receiver in the #6 Schuetzen model. It has an early Germanic style buttplate with the "pick" for a top prong, but it's actually a threaded screw to hold the nickeled buttplate. Typical features of a #6 with ball and spur lever, straight grip stock on a pistol grip frame. Heavy 32" half octagon Schoyen marked barrel in .32-40 caliber. Base for palmrest is threaded 5/16-NC, but missing rest. No sights, and D&T for scope bases. Have some sights here, so I'll put a midrange Vernier and globe front on it. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) Has the flat bottom stock of early heavy buttplate models: (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)

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Rebel Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4292 Location: Rockets and Race Cars Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #1 - May 21^st, 2018 at 9:47pm	Print Post
	very nice! Aaron

	WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. Let's Go Sonny!
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38-55Kidd Participating Member Offline Posts: 20 Location: CO Joined: Jul 20^th, 2008	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #2 - May 21^st, 2018 at 10:38pm	Print Post
	Wow Vall you did well again this year! Those are two great looking rifles. It's nice to see how they were set up for shooting and used. i think those changes make them unique and more special. I cannot wait for the range reports. Jon


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JerryH Frequent Elocutionist Offline ASSRA Member #10876 Posts: 1240 Location: Easton, CA Joined: Nov 9^th, 2014	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #3 - May 21^st, 2018 at 11:20pm	Print Post
	Vall, I am truly amazed with the rifles you find. I also really appreciate you sharing them with us. JerryH

	I'm not a complete idiot, some of my parts are missing.
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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #4 - May 22^nd, 2018 at 1:55am	Print Post
	Nice rifles, Vall. Looks like it was worth the trip.

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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Bill Lawrence Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1037 Joined: Mar 17^th, 2014	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #5 - May 22^nd, 2018 at 5:51am	Print Post
	Oooh, JLouis is going to cast a critical eye on that messy Schoyen barrel stamp. To quote Sylvester Q. Pussycat, "You are dithspicable!" But, boy, do you have an amazing and enviable collection, which just keeps getting moreso! Lustful, Whimpering Bill Lawrence


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Chuckster Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2223 Location: Colorado Joined: May 15^th, 2008	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #6 - May 22^nd, 2018 at 9:45am	Print Post
	Saw both of the rifles at the show, pictures don't do them justice. Great rifles. Learned something at the show: All #6 Ballard's have the flat bottomed stock. Correct?? Chuck


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oodmoff Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 276 Location: colorado springs Joined: Jan 12^th, 2009	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #7 - May 22^nd, 2018 at 11:32am	Print Post
	You never disappoint Vall! Great Finds!


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calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3537 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #8 - May 22^nd, 2018 at 11:50am	Print Post
	Dazzled us again, man. 'Bout two more trips like that one and all the Ballards will be gone, hey?


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #9 - May 22^nd, 2018 at 11:54am	Print Post
	Chuckster wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 9:45am: Saw both of the rifles at the show, pictures don't do them justice. Great rifles. Learned something at the show: All #6 Ballard's have the flat bottomed stock. Correct?? Chuck No Chuck, not all of them. I have another that is a rounded bottom stock. Marlin used 3 different buttplates on the #6 and two of them were flat bottom buttplates. So if one had a flat bottom buttplate it got a flat bottom stock to match. The rounded bottom buttplates are not often seen, but my #6 with Zettler Bros. barrel is a rounded buttplate and stock. The two flat bottom buttplates are also much heavier than the rounded buttplate. One with the "pick" on the top prong as this one, and one without the "pick". Bottom gun on my display is the Zettler Bros. #6 with rounded bottom stock. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) Thank you all for the kind comments!

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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #10 - May 22^nd, 2018 at 12:00pm	Print Post
	Very nice indeed Val makes me wonder if the mould I opened up and gave to you might work in these rifles as well. If so it sure would be enjoyable to get out and shoot the both of them and if so let us know how well they both shoot. JLouis

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #11 - May 22^nd, 2018 at 1:12pm	Print Post
	JLouis wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 12:00pm: Very nice indeed Val makes me wonder if the mould I opened up and gave to you might work in these rifles as well. If so it sure would be enjoyable to get out and shoot the both of them and if so let us know how well they both shoot. JLouis I sure hope it works on these John! I will slug both bores this week and then determine which mold I have is best for breech seating these two Ballards!

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Zack T Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 354 Joined: Apr 9^th, 2010	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #12 - May 24^th, 2018 at 2:07pm	Print Post
	I almost bought that Schoyen and the other #6 sitting right next to it. Good looking guns at fair prices. Ended up buying a crusty old sharps instead. Glad you got those two !


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #13 - May 24^th, 2018 at 4:28pm	Print Post
	Zack T wrote on May 24^th, 2018 at 2:07pm: I almost bought that Schoyen and the other #6 sitting right next to it. Good looking guns at fair prices. Ended up buying a crusty old sharps instead. Glad you got those two ! He had another Schoyen with the nickeled receiver that was pretty nice. All were at very fair prices and good guns. I debated between the #6 Schoyen and the regular #6, but the stock repair on the regular #6 just wasn't what I wanted to tackle. It had been cut off, and then reinstalled and needed woodwork I hate doing. I dug through my sight box this morning and located a Ballard midrange Vernier and windage globe front. Unfortunately the globe has no insert and I need to locate both an insert and the clip before I can use it. I'll put a plain globe on until I locate these items.
	« Last Edit: May 24^th, 2018 at 4:35pm by marlinguy »
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Flatlander Oldtimer Offline Posts: 599 Location: Warm Arizona Joined: Apr 24^th, 2004	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #14 - May 24^th, 2018 at 4:57pm	Print Post
	Vall: You convinced me I need to be there on Friday. The good stuff is all gone by the time I get there on Saturday

	NRA Life ASSRA Member 3197 Charcoal Burner
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Zack T Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 354 Joined: Apr 9^th, 2010	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #15 - May 24^th, 2018 at 5:54pm	Print Post
	"He had another Schoyen with the nickeled receiver that was pretty nice. All were at very fair prices and good guns. I debated between the #6 Schoyen and the regular #6, but the stock repair on the regular #6 just wasn't what I wanted to tackle. It had been cut off, and then reinstalled and needed woodwork I hate doing. " yes I couldn't figure out why the past owner did that to the stock. Maybe for shooting off of bags ? Had a decent bore and was priced right. there were so many good Ballards there it was hard to stay focused. I think Ron Peterson had 6 or 8 and there were a few stunners floating around.


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #16 - May 24^th, 2018 at 6:24pm	Print Post
	The Schoyen I got had a few chips off the edge of the forearm here and there. It's sitting on the work bench presently waiting for the pieces I made to set up so I can shape them down and apply finish. Nothing big, but it will look better without the missing chips of wood.

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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #17 - May 26^th, 2018 at 4:11pm	Print Post
	I really am not fond of fixing little slivers, and big chips are much easier! But I carved up some scrap walnut and fit it into the areas missing wood on the Schoyen's forearm. Then mixed up some two part clear epoxy and dyed it brown. Got the pieces in place overnight, and sanded them to final shape today. Then while the finish was drying I grabbed a 5/16" bolt and made a stem for the missing palm rest. Grabbed more scrap wood and carved out a palm rest as close to Schoyen style as I could. Fitted to my hand, and felt good on the gun. Did a quick sand job and applied some WOP to seal it. Will give it a few more coats after it's dried well. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)

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Bill Lawrence Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1037 Joined: Mar 17^th, 2014	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #18 - May 26^th, 2018 at 5:42pm	Print Post
	Such things seem to be all in a day's work for so many of you here. I surely do wish I had even some of your talent and resources. Bill Lawrence


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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #19 - May 26^th, 2018 at 6:09pm	Print Post
	Nice work indeed Vall are you going to dull it down a tad to match the existing a bit closer. Not at all criticizing your work so please do not take it as such and only asking. JLouis

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #20 - May 26^th, 2018 at 7:52pm	Print Post
	JLouis wrote on May 26^th, 2018 at 6:09pm: Nice work indeed Vall are you going to dull it down a tad to match the existing a bit closer. Not at all criticizing your work so please do not take it as such and only asking. JLouis Yes John. I have found it's easier to start with a higher gloss and knock it down with rottenstone, than it is to try and bring a sating finish up to match. The palm rest is still wet in that picture.

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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #21 - May 27^th, 2018 at 1:31pm	Print Post
	Thanks Vall and knowing your work it won't be distinguishble from the original and the wood you picked seems to also match very nicely. By chance have you come across a project for the Pope Lever I sent you and one I am highly looking forward to seeing when that day should arrive and hopefully it will work out for you without issue. JLouis

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #22 - May 27^th, 2018 at 5:53pm	Print Post
	I do have a Ballard in progress the lever is going to go on John. A #2 that will be either relined or rebarreled to .22LR and done schuetzen style. I'm leaning towards rebarrel if I can find a large enough blank to get a good heavy barrel.

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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #23 - May 27^th, 2018 at 7:13pm	Print Post
	Vall have you checked with BRC a friend just bought a chocked pre profiled I believe in full Octagon but in center fire. JLouis

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #24 - May 27^th, 2018 at 7:32pm	Print Post
	JLouis wrote on May 27^th, 2018 at 7:13pm: Vall have you checked with BRC a friend just bought a chocked pre profiled I believe in full Octagon but in center fire. JLouis Jerry H told me he got a heavy .22RF barrel for a very good price from BRC, and I'll likely choose BRC because of Ken's excellent posts showing the groups he's getting with them. I'd prefer octagon, but have no problem with full round either. But I want a very heavy barrel at 1.25" across the flats, or round.

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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #25 - May 27^th, 2018 at 8:14pm	Print Post
	Making another Ballard, VAll?

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #26 - May 27^th, 2018 at 8:39pm	Print Post
	Schuetzenmiester wrote on May 27^th, 2018 at 8:14pm: Making another Ballard, VAll? Well more like remaking a Ballard action. I'm not talented enough to make a Ballard. We have guys here that are that talented like Chuckster and GT! (to mention a couple)

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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #27 - May 27^th, 2018 at 8:53pm	Print Post
	That is what I meant, building on a Ballard Their barrels are more than reasonably priced. I was about to jump in too until that thread about what to do with all this stuff when you pass on. I already have too many good shooting rifles I don't shoot now

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #28 - May 28^th, 2018 at 12:56pm	Print Post
	Schuetzenmiester wrote on May 27^th, 2018 at 8:53pm: That is what I meant, building on a Ballard Their barrels are more than reasonably priced. I was about to jump in too until that thread about what to do with all this stuff when you pass on. I already have too many good shooting rifles I don't shoot now I try not to even consider the thought of "too many good rifles I don't shoot". If I use that mode of thinking I might find myself selling guns!!

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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #29 - May 30^th, 2018 at 5:03pm	Print Post
	Got the shine knocked off the palm rest I built. Now it needs to cure for a few weeks before I can buff it up to match the stock finish. Also dug into my scope bases and found two that fit the D&T holes in the Schoyen barrel. Mounted up the Belding & Mull telescope I had sitting in the safe. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)

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DWT1885 Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 394 Location: New Jersey Joined: Nov 25^th, 2010	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #30 - May 30^th, 2018 at 5:11pm	Print Post
	Vall, What a great looking outfit. You sure have it together. Dale.

	35th Security Police Squadron, Phan Rang AB, RVN, May 70-71. All gave some, some gave all.
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #31 - May 30^th, 2018 at 9:32pm	Print Post
	Thanks Dale!

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Bill Lawrence Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1037 Joined: Mar 17^th, 2014	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #32 - May 30^th, 2018 at 10:03pm	Print Post
	Marlinguy scores again! (Though I'll wait 'til Joe's "Mystery Ballard" gets done before I declare my personal winner of this round's Best Ballard Resurrection ribbon.) Bill Lawrence
	« Last Edit: May 31^st, 2018 at 10:56am by Bill Lawrence »

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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #33 - May 31^st, 2018 at 11:05am	Print Post
	Thanks Bill! Joe's mystery Ballard is pretty neat!

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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Pope and Schoyen Ballard rifles Reply #34 - May 31^st, 2018 at 6:07pm	Print Post
	JLouis wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 12:00pm: Very nice indeed Val makes me wonder if the mould I opened up and gave to you might work in these rifles as well. If so it sure would be enjoyable to get out and shoot the both of them and if so let us know how well they both shoot. JLouis Slugged the bores today. (finally!) And was pleasantly surprised to find them to be .322" groove on the Pope, and .321" on the Schoyen! Wont work with the SAECO you opened up for me, but it does open up a large choice of other .32 caliber molds I own. Most of my .32-40's have large bores, and one is an extremely small .316" bore. Nice to have normal bore sizes!

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