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texasmac
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Measuring .22 LR rim thickness
May 13th, 2018 at 11:49pm
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I just completed a short interesting experiment on .22 LR rimfire thicknesses. 

After extensive testing of several brands & type of ammo in a Stevens Mod 44 used for 22BPCR competition, I had settled on CCI Std Velocity Target for the chickens & pigs, & Eley Match for the turkeys & rams.  Although I'm aware that variations in firing pin strike and differences in rim thickness can impact accuracy, I never had a method to test either.  So after reading a recent article on rim thicknesses versus accuracy I picked up a Hornady Rimfire Thickness gauge.

As expected, after measuring 100 round of each, the variation in the Eley Match was better than the CCI, but not by much.  The CCI measure a medium 0.041” with a variation of +/- 0.001” or +/- 2.4%.  Rotating the cartridges in the gauge & measuring again made no difference.

The Eley was better but rotating the cartridge in the gauge resulted in a 0.001” change, which was somewhat of a surprise.  I.e., based on the rotational orientation, all measured 0.037” or all measured 0.038”.  Therefore, the medium thickness was 0.0375” with a variation of +/- 0.0005” or +/- 1.3%.  Of course the variation could essentially be reduced to zero by measuring, marking & chambering the cartridges with the same orientation, not something I plan on doing.

If you’re wondering about the rim thicknesses of "economy” ammo, 50 rounds of Win. Varmint/Plinking ammo resulted in a spread of 0.005”, Win. Wildcat Hi-Velocity spread was 0.004” and Federal Target’s spread was 0.002”.  After accuracy testing all the ammo with the Stevens, the results confirmed the effect of rim thickness variations.  BTW, the Federal Target & the CCI Std. Velocity Target had identical variations in rim thickness, but the CCI shot slightly better in the rifle.  The Win. Varmint/Plinking was by far the worse.

So although the above results may be important when striving for tiny groups when “punching paper” with a high-quality target rifle, will it help when shooting .22BPCR silhouette?  I have no idea, but it certainly can’t hurt and it does increase my confidence in the ammo I’ve chosen to use.  Of course, there are other factors that affect accuracy including chamber and bore dimensions.  And shooting high-precision ammo in a “mediocre” rifle is likely a waste of good ammo.

BTW, the article I referred to earlier can be accessed at (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Wayne
  

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JLouis
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Re: Measuring .22 LR rim thickness
Reply #1 - May 14th, 2018 at 12:08am
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Having done the same in the past better results were achieved by far by just simply sorting by weight and not paying attention to rim thickness. But you also have to start out with what your rifle prefers and already shoots the best. 

JLouis
  

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Redsetter
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Re: Measuring .22 LR rim thickness
Reply #2 - May 14th, 2018 at 7:37am
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Years ago I wasted a lot of time sorting with a Neil Jones rim-thickness gauge.  Can't remember exact results, but my final conclusion was...not worth the trouble.
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Measuring .22 LR rim thickness
Reply #3 - May 14th, 2018 at 2:35pm
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My experience with non-match 22RF cases, mine kind of mirrors yours.

Here are 3 pictures of 100 yard targets, shot with my most accurate, production 22RF. The groups where shot with a Model 68 Winchester, barreled action, mounted in a 1905 Savage stock (much like a 1902 Win but, with a crecent butt plate), 4X scope. 

Note the CCI target has 1 & 4 dots. The first groups were fired on it. I found the X hairs, more than covered the 3/4" dots and I didn't have a aim point. I then made the 4 dot arrangement, to get a aim point, in between the dots.

While the Wolf Match had  tighter 10 shot group and would have scored higher, the 6 to 9 group sizes of the Fed and CCI where similar. 

When I started breech seating 22RF back in 1990, I tested the commonly available  ammo, including Rem, Fed (3 kinds), CCI Blazer, CCI Mini Mag, Win & Win T22, for cases to use.

In that testing, CCI cases gave the best BSing accuracy, Fed Champion second. I didn't measure the case rims or weight the empty cases. The Rems were the worst and I couldn't even get 100% ignition.

When I built my BSing, 44 Stevens, to eliminate any case thinkness problems, I set the headspace at .040, so that the rim would be captured, when chambered and used dual firing pins, in hope of better ignition on non-match cases.

Frank
  

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Re: Measuring .22 LR rim thickness
Reply #4 - May 15th, 2018 at 6:25am
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In the past I shot a lot of handgun silhouette. Two NRA national championships and many state championships. I went through the measuring & weighing stages and came to the conclusion that neither were worth the time.
  
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boats
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Re: Measuring .22 LR rim thickness
Reply #5 - May 15th, 2018 at 8:42am
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Sorting and weighing is interesting, most of us go through it. And cheap ammo that shoots well is the Holy Grail.
Fact is top level smallbore shooters use top quality ammunition. While most have a brand preference  they don’t sort.   It has to perform the entire record string of shots 10 or more in matches I have shot. Weakness most cheap stuff is a percentage flyers out of group that cost points.

What a shooter uses in his rifle ought to depend on intended use. Side by side squaded competition with limited sighters repeatable point of impact from a cold barrel is critical. Prone patch with 2 sighters then record target you want to use them confirming conditions trusting POI will be the same going to the record  target.

Silhouette arriving at a match that may not have distances accurately measured (NRA allows variance in distance) same thing, use the sighters to determine elevations. Count on your zero book during the match. 

My preference has always been same brand bought in large quantity, two grades, one for practice one for match. Exception Smallbore Lever Silhouette were Ram knockdown is marginal and high velocity may be advantage. Most HV won’t group well and many shooters better off leaving a few rams standing & not risking impact change switching from HV to match. 

No doubt Rimfire bench matches have some similar critical factors. 

Boats
« Last Edit: May 15th, 2018 at 8:47am by boats »  
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.22Hepburn
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Re: Measuring .22 LR rim thickness
Reply #6 - May 15th, 2018 at 9:00am
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Boats, very good points.
I shoot .22 BPCR Silhouette, targets are at 50, 100, 150, and 200 meters. MOA accuracy is pretty much minimum so using anything less than top-quality ammo is a crap shoot at best. Finding the ammo that your rifle likes best , as well as the best lot of that ammo, is pretty much like load development in a big bore BP rifle. When it comes to ammo, old Chinese proverb comes to mind - "you pay peanuts and you get monkeys".
  
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boats
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Re: Measuring .22 LR rim thickness
Reply #7 - May 15th, 2018 at 9:59am
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40-82 guys will ask me about my ammunition choice.  I generally explain it by doing the math.

Club matches fixed cost 50 dollars gas meals entry fees.Ammo cost can be 5 % 10 % or 15 % added to the fixed. 10 dollar spread cheap to expensive. Difference in first to third place finish vs nice outing no prize most times a single shot.

Cheap ammo = false economy 

Boats
  
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Re: Measuring .22 LR rim thickness
Reply #8 - May 16th, 2018 at 9:55pm
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I'm with Boats.  It costs me $12 in gasoline for a round trip to the range, plus match fees ($5) plus membership.  All sunk cost before you fire the first shot.  All you really require is that the ammo shoots better than you.  But you don't need Tenex for offhand unless you are really good.

Also, is the expensive stuff always better?  Last Sunday I won a BR-50/50 match by 6 points.  I used new Midas + and got 8 hits on the X-dot.  Second place used Wolf Match Extra but had 18 hits on the X-dot.  I shot an Eric Johnson Ballard with a 12X Unertl.  David had a BSA International Mk II with a modern scope of some sort, 24X.

Tuesday (yesterday) the Tuesday Afternoon Schuetzen Verein had a 100-yard rimfire bench match using the ASSRA targets, two 25-shot targets.  The range is on the left coast, about 300 yards from the surf, and faces SW.  Wind, glare & some sort of mirage or mist are given.  Same rifle & ammo for me, I won with a 1204-20 centers.   

Second was a guy who has only been shooting for two years and hasn't much $$.  He used a Remington 513T with a modern 10X scope and Wolf Match Extra.  He had 1198 points and 16 centers.  After that, I have my doubts about the Midas +.  I tried two 10-shot targets at 100 yards; 245 with 4 centers and 247 with 7 centers.   

Another shooter at the Tuesday match used a Stevens Crackshot with a Win 52 barrel and a 30X plus modern scope.  He shot CCI High Velocity ammo.  Score was 1173 with 17 centers.

All that is out of the box.  I have weighed 22s, but you have to go through at least 1,000 to be able to find a really stable batch.
  
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Re: Measuring .22 LR rim thickness
Reply #9 - May 17th, 2018 at 1:22am
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waterman wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 9:55pm:


Also, is the expensive stuff always better?  Last Sunday I won a BR-50/50 match by 6 points.  I used new Midas + and got 8 hits on the X-dot.  Second place used Wolf Match Extra but had 18 hits on the X-dot.  I shot an Eric Johnson Ballard with a 12X Unertl.  David had a BSA International Mk II with a modern scope of some sort, 24X.


I shot in the same match, 468 8x. Eley Match straight from the box. 40X Remington, Redfield 12X.
  
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Re: Measuring .22 LR rim thickness
Reply #10 - May 17th, 2018 at 8:35am
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I agree with John, I quite rim thickness years ago after I found the inconsistency of the measurement (rotation issue) and frankly lack of cause and affect from variation. I strictly weight now. That said I have a friend who shoots IRA and ARA bench who measures weight and over all length and swears he has had great results.
  
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Re: Measuring .22 LR rim thickness
Reply #11 - May 17th, 2018 at 11:02am
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I have some questions regarding rim thickness vs accuracy; what exactly is the effect of rim thickness on accuracy? Also, is the effect the same on all actions? Example - would rim thickness effect be the same in an action like a Hepburn (with virtually no camming action) vs a Ballard (that can be set up to pinch up very tightly) ?
  
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texasmac
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Re: Measuring .22 LR rim thickness
Reply #12 - May 17th, 2018 at 12:51pm
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.22Hepburn wrote on May 17th, 2018 at 11:02am:
I have some questions regarding rim thickness vs accuracy; what exactly is the effect of rim thickness on accuracy? Also, is the effect the same on all actions? Example - would rim thickness effect be the same in an action like a Hepburn (with virtually no camming action) vs a Ballard (that can be set up to pinch up very tightly) ?


My understanding is uniform ignition & accuracy, is effective by how well the primer compound is ignited, which is directly related to the impact of the firing pin.  Variations in rim thicknesses affect the firing pin strike & therefore affects ignition.  I have recently had direct experience with marginal .22RF firing pin strikes due to a worn & disfigured firing pit tip.  The result was flyers, even with high-quality ammo.  Replacing the firing pin solved the problem.  A variation in firing pin strike also affects center-fire firearms.  An example is the well-known results with Sharps rifles when, unknown to the shooter, the firing pin breaks.  The broken pin still has sufficient energy to fire the cartridge but unexpected flyers result.

With the above said, and due to my recent testing of .22RF ammo with the rim thickness gauge, I agree with the comments made that rim thickness testing is a waste of time with high-quality target ammo.  The gauge may have a use when sorting economy ammo to use for target shooting.

Concerning different actions, I'm no expert but I'd expect headspace to be much more important than how tightly the block cams or locks up. But headspace won't fix variations in rim thicknesses.

Wayne
  

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Re: Measuring .22 LR rim thickness
Reply #13 - May 17th, 2018 at 2:44pm
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Wayne you said a mouthful when it pertains to ignition either it be rim or a center strike. It is a very critical component and directly related to achieving the very best in accuracy. But it is also and very unfortunately the most over looked component. How hard, how soft as well as placement I have found them all to be very critical. One of the superior benefits of the CPA / Steven's typicaly not mentioned and why they should be taken into consideration when looking for a rifle is the ability to adjust the hammer spring pressure. A good example being I have been able in testing to decrease my group sizes by quite a margin by slightly adjusting the hammer spring pressure. Light spring pressure but more than enough not to incur miss-fires and heavy spring pressure both have shown to provide very noticable ill effects on my test group sizes. And for those who might have that ability it is a test that you too can go out,  perform and prove to yourself. It just takes making slight adjustments until you too will find that very very sweet spot that provides you the better groups. Those who don't have that ability can try to find a primer with a cup hardness that better suits your hammer spring pressure as they do differ or magnum primers that can also provide more consistent ignition.  Thanks for bringing this up Wayne and hopefully it did not distract from your original post but could have been somehow a benefit to it. I might add by not having that ability myself with my FBW's Model J I had to move to LP primers not only to help lessen my group size but even more so to get rid of my uncalled for flyer's of which they surely have and also a typicaly a problem others seem to incur. And on stiker type rimfires and others for that matter installing a stronger or lighter spring might be a very positive approach as well. 

JLouis
  

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Re: Measuring .22 LR rim thickness
Reply #14 - May 17th, 2018 at 4:08pm
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texasmac wrote on May 17th, 2018 at 12:51pm:
My understanding is uniform ignition & accuracy, is effective by how well the primer compound is ignited, which is directly related to the impact of the firing pin.


Vickery's Advanced Gunsmithing devotes a page of illustrations of different firing pin strikes on case rims, with explanations of the effects of each on ignition. 
  
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