Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2]  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 40-65 brass (Read 9602 times)
gunlaker
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2605
Location: lower mainland, B.C.
Joined: Dec 13th, 2010
Re: 40-65 brass
Reply #15 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 11:08pm
Print Post  
My .40-65 brass is all reformed from Rem .45-70 brass.   It comes out pretty long.  Long enough that to get them to 2.113" for my first fireforming, I have to run them through my trim die and file a pile of length off of them.

I've got two .40-65's from Shiloh and the first has a slightly deeper chamber and wants the brass to be 2.105"-2.107".  The second hasn't had a chamber cast yet but seems to work quite well with 2.1" brass.

Chris.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SSShooter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2942
Location: Southern NJ
Joined: Aug 1st, 2010
Re: 40-65 brass
Reply #16 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:40am
Print Post  
Mick B wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 7:40pm:
I just measured two brand new Starline 40/65 cases and they both measure 2.105". I have just sized 50 45/70 Starline cases and after forming, but before trimming, they measured over 2.200", I will fire form them prior to final trimming.
Why you are having trouble with 45/70 brass escapes me.
Mike.

I've never had good luck with Starline, either 40-65 or re-sized 45-70. Always ends up short (generally in the 2.08-2.09" range, but some even shorter) after fire-forming.

Winchester 45-70 sized down to 40-65 and annealed needs a bit of trimming to get to my preferred 2.10-2.11" length. 

R-P 45-70 sized down to 40-65  and annealed runs between 2.095" & 2.105" after fire-forming.

YMMV.
  

Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
Back to top
GTalk  
IP Logged
 
ireload2
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 169
Joined: Jul 9th, 2009
Re: 40-65 brass
Reply #17 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 4:20am
Print Post  
You cannot really say that except in a general way.
The data in your references are just ink on paper.
The real information is found in the actual chamber and they are practically guaranteed to be longer than all factory brass. 
You have to measure each and every chamber length to know what you have.
For example I have a Steyr manufactured rifle.
Data for the round says the case maximum is 2.110.
The rifle's chambers actually measure 2.150.
I trim cases to be fire formed to 2.150.
Dangerous you say?
Cases fired with smokeless shrink to 2.145.
Always measure your chambers...

Schuetzendave wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 8:38pm:
My chamber was designed and chambered to be 0.030" longer.

I am glad you mentioned that: so that people who have the standard .40-65 chamber do not think they can use the longer cases that you are able to use.
Because it would be unsafe for them to do so.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
hepburnman
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 402
Location: NJ
Joined: Mar 22nd, 2015
Re: 40-65 brass
Reply #18 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 8:48am
Print Post  
I've actually had good luck with forming Starline 45-70 cases down to 40-65 and having them oversize at >2.150" long (my chamber is 2.135" long). I also annealed my cases prior to forming them down so the brass was softer now and has more tendency to flow forward when formed down.

If you annealed before forming down, but are still getting shorter cases after initial forming/fire-forming/etc., I wonder if it could be related to differences in our situations such as chamber sizes, forming die sizes, trimming to length before fire-forming, etc. As an example of how cases lengths could shrink to a larger degree, if your forming die makes your case diameters much smaller than your chamber, when you then fire-form them they will swell up and shrink in length more than if the formed cases were already a close fit to your chamber before fire-forming. 

SSShooter wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:40am:
Mick B wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 7:40pm:
I just measured two brand new Starline 40/65 cases and they both measure 2.105". I have just sized 50 45/70 Starline cases and after forming, but before trimming, they measured over 2.200", I will fire form them prior to final trimming.
Why you are having trouble with 45/70 brass escapes me.
Mike.

I've never had good luck with Starline, either 40-65 or re-sized 45-70. Always ends up short (generally in the 2.08-2.09" range, but some even shorter) after fire-forming.

Winchester 45-70 sized down to 40-65 and annealed needs a bit of trimming to get to my preferred 2.10-2.11" length. 

R-P 45-70 sized down to 40-65  and annealed runs between 2.095" & 2.105" after fire-forming.

YMMV.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ireload2
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 169
Joined: Jul 9th, 2009
Re: 40-65 brass
Reply #19 - Apr 26th, 2018 at 6:38am
Print Post  
Most chamber necks are .005 to .007 larger than loaded ammo.
If you use thicker brass and or larger bullets the chamber neck might not have enough clearance.   
However I have rifles with factory chambers that are .014 larger than loaded ammo.
You can cite all sorts of what if and theories to justify caution.
The best practice is to measure the chamber.

You can easily measure the neck diameter by flaring a case oversize.
Flare the case mouth to a trumpet shape about .030 larger than a loaded round.  Force the case into the chamber and then carefully extract.
The flare will have been compressed to fit the chamber neck.
Measure the flare with a micrometer.

To measure the chamber length start with a case that will fit the chamber but has a neck too long to fit.   
Trim the case to about .050 too long.
Flare the mouth.
Push the case into the chamber.  If it does not fit trim it .010 and try again.
Keep flaring and trying and trimming until the bolt closes.

Once your test case fits try with another .010 longer than the last pass of the first case.
Flare and trim .002 and test again until the second case just barely allows the bolt to close. Triple check with a 3rd case. When you are happy with the fit write down your chamber length and neck diameter for that rifle.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SSShooter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2942
Location: Southern NJ
Joined: Aug 1st, 2010
Re: 40-65 brass
Reply #20 - Apr 26th, 2018 at 7:09am
Print Post  
hepburnman wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 8:48am:
I've actually had good luck with forming Starline 45-70 cases down to 40-65 and having them oversize at >2.150" long (my chamber is 2.135" long). I also annealed my cases prior to forming them down so the brass was softer now and has more tendency to flow forward when formed down.

If you annealed before forming down, but are still getting shorter cases after initial forming/fire-forming/etc., I wonder if it could be related to differences in our situations such as chamber sizes, forming die sizes, trimming to length before fire-forming, etc. As an example of how cases lengths could shrink to a larger degree, if your forming die makes your case diameters much smaller than your chamber, when you then fire-form them they will swell up and shrink in length more than if the formed cases were already a close fit to your chamber before fire-forming.

Don't know why with Starline, but know several other BPCR/BPTR shooters with similar results. While I relegate my Starline to chickens/pigs & 200/300yd shooting, several of these folks shoot only Win or R-P brass. I always anneal the brass before fire-forming, regardless of maker.
  

Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
Back to top
GTalk  
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Send TopicPrint