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namvet67
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40-65 brass
Apr 11th, 2018 at 3:50pm
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I'm trying to get brass that I can get to OAL of 2.110 for 40-65. 45-70 brass that I have tried won't work. Tried Rem and Starline. Any suggestions?
  
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art_ruggiero
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Re: 40-65 brass
Reply #1 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 4:43pm
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i use winchester45/70, works great.  do not anneal  just size and  trim.   art
  
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LONG RANGE
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Re: 40-65 brass
Reply #2 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:52pm
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Ditto
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: 40-65 brass
Reply #3 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 6:33pm
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MAXIMUM case length for both .40-65 and .45-70 is 2.100".

All manufacturers generally sell their cases .005" less than the maximum case length.

To get to 2.110" would require stretching cases to the point where it is beyond the safe length to use.

Extra long case mouths can bevel/crimp in at the throat (upon firing) and be so tight a bullet cannot be safely released causing a build up of excessive pressure. 
I hope you are not using smokeless powder when you do this.
« Last Edit: Apr 11th, 2018 at 6:39pm by Schuetzendave »  
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Mick B
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Re: 40-65 brass
Reply #4 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 7:40pm
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I just measured two brand new Starline 40/65 cases and they both measure 2.105". I have just sized 50 45/70 Starline cases and after forming, but before trimming, they measured over 2.200", I will fire form them prior to final trimming.
Why you are having trouble with 45/70 brass escapes me.
Mike.
  
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: 40-65 brass
Reply #5 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 8:28pm
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When you size 45/70 to 40/65 it grows in length and must be trimmed to length. I don't understand your problem.
  
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namvet67
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Re: 40-65 brass
Reply #6 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 8:58am
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Going to order some new brass and see what happens. Thanks guys.
  
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hepburnman
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Re: 40-65 brass
Reply #7 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 10:29am
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Be sure to anneal the starline 45-70 brass before you size it down to 40-65. I was getting something like 2.135" AOL when I did this. It will shrink some too after fireforming; depending on how much smaller your die shrinks the case compared to the size of your chamber.
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: 40-65 brass
Reply #8 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 1:13pm
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Why shrink down .45-70 Starline brass.
They sell .40-65 cases as well.
Even so Starline brass always needs to be annealed before using.
  
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hepburnman
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Re: 40-65 brass
Reply #9 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 1:24pm
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Because I needed 2.130" long brass after fireforming and trimming. Smiley

Schuetzendave wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 1:13pm:
Why shrink down .45-70 Starline brass.
They sell .40-65 cases as well.
Even so Starline brass always needs to be annealed before using.

  
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Old-Win
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Re: 40-65 brass
Reply #10 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 5:33pm
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I've shot the Quigley for the last 15 years and there have been two (2) failures.  One in a rifle that never should have been built (cast Ballard) and one Pedersoli that had a rung chamber and the barrel split.  Both were using 5744 double based powder.
  
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hepburnman
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Re: 40-65 brass
Reply #11 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 8:14pm
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My chamber was designed and chambered to be 0.030" longer. Ron long and others did this years ago to make use of the longer 40-65 cases that were formed from 45-70 cases

Schuetzendave wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 5:07pm:
The Maximum length is the length where you have to trim it down or risk a failure. 
Your chamber has a length that is the maximum travel before the neck starts to close on the bullet. 
If the neck closes (due to an excessively long case) the bullet is held in the throat until pressures build up too much; and you have a failure.
You want to be less than the specified Maximum Length at all times. 

So you are making cases .030" longer than the Maximum specified length for your cases.

And people cannot understand why there are rifle failures at Quigley.

  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: 40-65 brass
Reply #12 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 8:57pm
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Good reason to chamber cast.
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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Old-Win
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Re: 40-65 brass
Reply #13 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 11:13pm
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"Old Win it is unclear if you believe we should be following proper safety procedures. i.e. Not Exceeding MAXIMUM Case Length." 
Schuetzendave,  I don't know how you could think that.  I was just pointing out that there have been 2 rifles that failed at the Quigley in the last 15 years.  You mentioned that there has been one almost every year.  I see that you have now modified your post.  Bob
  
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Ranch13
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Re: 40-65 brass
Reply #14 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 8:57am
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Schuetzendave wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 6:10pm:


The person who used the 5744 in the Pedorsoli used more powder than the maximum specified for the bullet she was using.


Just a quick correction here, the Lady that had the rifle blow up was shooting a Marlin Ballard, that had been relined, and had been used for many years. Her load was right at or maximum. There was apparently an old crack under in the receiver that finally let go.
The Pedersoli that blew was being ran by a man. The chamber had been rung by the use of wads and smokeless powder.

Now as to chamber length, there's the 40-65 winchester and marlin chambers, then you get into the bushes with various "40-65" chambers that have length's all over the place. The 40-65 RL one of the most common encountered is simply the result of a 45-70 case ran into a 40-65 size die and shot as is, other's are derivatives of that and the case needs be trimmed after sizing.
Chamber casting a "40-65" is a grand idea, if you're not the original owner of the rifle, as it's hard to tell what someone has been doing inside that chamber with a reamer/drill bit, etc.
Smokeless powder and wads are never a good thing.
  
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