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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) BP and breechseating (Read 11810 times)
MartiniBelgian
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BP and breechseating
Apr 7th, 2018 at 6:08am
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A question for those of you doing such:  I recently started out experimneting with breechseating in my 32-20 BPTR - a BSA Martini with  .308 1 in 12 barrel.
I am using a plugged case for breechseating, but I amm running into an issue when shooting this way:
A fouling ring is forming in front of the case, and 2 moist patches aren't getting it out - it really needs some serious brushing.  Now the rifle being a MArtini, this is not really easy to do, of course...
Any experience, solutions for this?  How are you dealing with it?  Being a 30-20, the amount of powder is pretty small, but still...
When I am shoting fixed, no issues with this crud ring, BTW.
  
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Mick B
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Re: BP and breechseating
Reply #1 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 7:30am
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If it were my rifle I would try running a couple of damp patches through from the muzzle on a Delrin rod which should not damage the muzzle any.
Mike
PS  I have seen a BSA Martini that had a hold drilled through the back of the action to allow straight through cleaning. if you don't mind drilling the hole of course.
Mike.
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: BP and breechseating
Reply #2 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 8:45am
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My rifle has the hole, but taking out the action after each shot isn't really an option, unfortunately - I have 30 minutes for 13 shots.
  
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John Boy
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Re: BP and breechseating
Reply #3 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 9:32am
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Quote:
A fouling ring is forming in front of the case, and 2 moist patches aren't getting it out - it really needs some serious brushing.
The case mouth is not touching the base of the seated bullet ...
* Plugged case so the length of the plug extends 1/16" in front of the case mouth 
* A small bell on the mouth of the case so when it is seated in the chamber - the mouth is touching the base of the seated bullet
This should substantially reduce the amount of the foul on ignition
« Last Edit: Apr 7th, 2018 at 2:33pm by »  
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rgchristensen
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Re: BP and breechseating
Reply #4 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 11:19am
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     I have been experimenting with wiping patches cut from micro-fiber dust cloths.   The stuff has quite a bit of scrubbing power, compared to flannel patches.   I wet them and squeeze dry in my hands.   This seems to hold enough water to do the job.
     These patches are. rather thick, so you will want to have/make a special jag to give the bore contact you want.    
     In the big ML rifle, I either dry the bore subsequently with paper patches cut from a roll of paper shop towels, or wet with 20% glycol in water.   This will leave the bore either wet or dry, between which there is a difference in the velocity.   At shorter ranges, you will not be worried about  minor velocity differences.  Using only water, the bbl can sometimes be either wet or dry, depending on temp and humidity.  Adding a little glycol (antifreeze) causes it always to remain a little wet.

CHRIS
RGChristensen
  
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frnkeore
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Re: BP and breechseating
Reply #5 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 5:53pm
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There is also a option of using duplex loads.

I would use 10 -15% 4227 (2 - 3 gr). That should take care of it. The amount of smoke or sound of combustion doesn't change, just the amount of fowling.

Frank
  

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Premod70
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Re: BP and breechseating
Reply #6 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 5:58pm
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I wonder if a German stop ring bullet would solve the fouling problem but then it would no longer be breech seated rather a fixed cartridge. When shooting black powder and with the right alloy and obturation does one gain anything by breech seating?
  
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RSW
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Re: BP and breechseating
Reply #7 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 6:36pm
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Premod70
Some accuracy is gained as a breech seated bullet is concentric with the bore and already in the rifling. With fixed ammo, there is the bullet jump from cartridge case to bore while it's being upset by the black powder ignition. 
There was good reason why our Schuetzen forefathers muzzle loaded or breech seated their match rifles.
  

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bruce moulds
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Re: BP and breechseating
Reply #8 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 6:42pm
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gert,
as usual you come up with an interesting problem, and in this case not a pleasant one.
not having an answer, some things that come to mind.
would it be worth comparing 1f, 2f, and 3f powders of best quality?
would it be worth trying a kicker of 4f, as in duplex, but with all black?
faster powder in the small case might work better, but might also make the problem worse. Undecided
could a felt wad soaked in grease replace the overpowder wad with a wax paper under it for any benefit?
if you are running an airgap, could some wad fill that space to prevent the issue?
i have tried a 1/8" felt wad in the airgap of 40 and 45 cal breech seated loads, and it works well, both greased and ungreased, but your round will probably have a smaller airgap.
straight felt will compress a little, while greased felt will not.
keep safe,
bruce.
  

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beltfed
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Re: BP and breechseating
Reply #9 - Apr 8th, 2018 at 10:46am
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Gert,
You talked about a way to wipe the bore of your Cadet 30-20>
  
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beltfed
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Re: BP and breechseating
Reply #10 - Apr 8th, 2018 at 10:53am
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Gert, 
Above is a PIC of wiping/cleaning my 12/15 from the breech.
I make up wiping rods in several sizes of delrin/acetal 
The above is 3/16" to fit 22 cal and up.
stock. Have made them up in larger sizes, mostly 5/16/with a rod guide to wipe TDs and Martini's
  
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beltfed
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Re: BP and breechseating
Reply #11 - Apr 8th, 2018 at 10:57am
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Rod guide in chamber
beltfed/arnie
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: BP and breechseating
Reply #12 - Apr 8th, 2018 at 12:12pm
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The wiping is not the problem, I have the flexible rod. But the crud ring is pretty tough, too much for a simple patch or 2 when breechseating.  A brush might work, but even then....  No such issues with fixed ammo.
Still, I would like to see if breechseating can give better accuracy.
  
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alex henry two
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Re: BP and breechseating
Reply #13 - Apr 8th, 2018 at 11:54pm
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Is it crud or lead? If lead could try thicker over powder wad!!  Or use a bore snake I use one in large framed martini in .58snider works a treat. Vic
  
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gunlaker
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Re: BP and breechseating
Reply #14 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 9:46am
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What powder are you using?  Could that be part of it maybe?   

I only ask because I have not experienced any crud ring build up with BP, but I have had a very hard carbon ring in my Ruger #1 in .32-40 when shooting SR-4759. 

Chris.
  
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