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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Lead pot (Read 12778 times)
Cbashooter
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Re: Lead pot
Reply #30 - Apr 1st, 2018 at 11:22am
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SAECO did sell pots.i still have a couple.they were good quality.My Waage 20# dipper pot is my favorite now.
  
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Crohnos01
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Re: Lead pot
Reply #31 - Apr 1st, 2018 at 8:42pm
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Hi folks,
I am new here, and this is my first post... Or reply to post more accurately. I am just getting into bullet casting and this lead pot topic caught my eye. 
I feel I should warn you that the PID control on a lead pot as marketed is a little less than accurate. A PID controller does provide a signal output in response to error from set point. The problem is that the heater control is a digital on/off device. So much like changing the power level on a microwave oven, you are simply rapidly turning on and off the heating element to simulate an analog signal. The problem I see with this is that the relay used to switch on and off the element will burn out relatively quickly compared to a standard themostat with a deadband while will drift the temperature +/- from set point. The way to truly provide PID control would be to have an analog control device such as a SCR heating element. Of course this would be more expensive, which is no doubt why they don't do it. At any rate, just a cautionary tale of what I predict will happen over time with the built in PID control strategy.... Relays can and do give up after so many thousand cycles.

  
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texasmac
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Re: Lead pot
Reply #32 - Apr 1st, 2018 at 10:52pm
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Crohnos01 wrote on Apr 1st, 2018 at 8:42pm:
Hi folks,
I am new here, and this is my first post... Or reply to post more accurately. I am just getting into bullet casting and this lead pot topic caught my eye. 
I feel I should warn you that the PID control on a lead pot as marketed is a little less than accurate. A PID controller does provide a signal output in response to error from set point. The problem is that the heater control is a digital on/off device. So much like changing the power level on a microwave oven, you are simply rapidly turning on and off the heating element to simulate an analog signal. The problem I see with this is that the relay used to switch on and off the element will burn out relatively quickly compared to a standard themostat with a deadband while will drift the temperature +/- from set point. The way to truly provide PID control would be to have an analog control device such as a SCR heating element. Of course this would be more expensive, which is no doubt why they don't do it. At any rate, just a cautionary tale of what I predict will happen over time with the built in PID control strategy.... Relays can and do give up after so many thousand cycles.


Crohnos01,

I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make but there are no mechanical relays used.  The controller drives a solid state relay (SSR).  The input (control side) of the SSR is opto-isolated from the output (drive side).  Typically triacs are used in the output side to switch on the AC supply to the heating element.  If the SSR is rated to handle the current and properly heatsinked there should be no long-term reliability problems.

On the other hand, with a PID controller built-in to a casting pot housing I am concerned about the heat transfer reducing the life of the controller and SSR.  Hopefully the manufactuers have designed a sufficiently robust solution.  We'll see as I have an RCBS Easy Melt on back order at MidwayUSA.

Wayne
« Last Edit: Apr 1st, 2018 at 11:15pm by texasmac »  

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Crohnos01
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Re: Lead pot
Reply #33 - Apr 2nd, 2018 at 1:12am
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A SSR will definitely help with the longevity over a mechanical relay; if that's what they are using. Not ever seeing a wiring schematic, I wouldn't know. But I would echo your concern regarding the heat affecting the controller and the SSR.

Sorry; I guess I am not exactly trying to make a point. It just irritates me that it's really pseudo PID control using a digital relay; SSR or otherwise. Tighter deadband? Yes, but not really a true PID control.
  
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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Lead pot
Reply #34 - Apr 2nd, 2018 at 8:54am
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Crohnos01 wrote on Apr 1st, 2018 at 8:42pm:
Hi folks,
I am new here, and this is my first post... Or reply to post more accurately. I am just getting into bullet casting and this lead pot topic caught my eye. 
I feel I should warn you that the PID control on a lead pot as marketed is a little less than accurate. A PID controller does provide a signal output in response to error from set point. The problem is that the heater control is a digital on/off device. So much like changing the power level on a microwave oven, you are simply rapidly turning on and off the heating element to simulate an analog signal. The problem I see with this is that the relay used to switch on and off the element will burn out relatively quickly compared to a standard themostat with a deadband while will drift the temperature +/- from set point. The way to truly provide PID control would be to have an analog control device such as a SCR heating element. Of course this would be more expensive, which is no doubt why they don't do it. At any rate, just a cautionary tale of what I predict will happen over time with the built in PID control strategy.... Relays can and do give up after so many thousand cycles.



Do not most folks that setup a PID controller use a zero-crossing solid state relay?  (Good for LOOONG time)

  

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Crohnos01
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Re: Lead pot
Reply #35 - Apr 2nd, 2018 at 10:59am
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[/quote]

Do not most folks that setup a PID controller use a zero-crossing solid state relay?  (Good for LOOONG time)

[/quote]

Perhaps I am over emphasizing the issue. Indeed, if most folks are controlling their pots using an external PID controller and. SSR, then beat won't be an issue and you're right... It will last a long time. 
In the case of the products made off the shelf, forgive me... I am used to companies cutting corners all too often it seems, which in this case would be a mechanical relay. If the products being sold are equipped with SSR's, so long as the heat sinks are properly designed, the end result will be "close enough for the girls I go out with" as my father used to say.
  
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SSShooter
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Re: Lead pot
Reply #36 - Apr 2nd, 2018 at 10:35pm
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Got my PID controller & SSR (40A) off of eBay for something like $30. Got the type K TC from Omega Engineering for about the same price. All have been bullet-proof  Wink for the past 5-6 years.
  

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texasmac
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Re: Lead pot
Reply #37 - Apr 2nd, 2018 at 11:07pm
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[/quote]Do not most folks that setup a PID controller use a zero-crossing solid state relay?  (Good for LOOONG time) [/quote]

Yes, you are correct.
Wayne
  

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