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.22 Hornet quiz. (Read 10770 times)

Redsetter Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3468 Location: New York Joined: Aug 6^th, 2013	Re: .22 Hornet quiz. Reply #15 - Mar 13^th, 2018 at 9:08am	Print Post
	uscra112 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 8:43am: Harwood's Hornet, also called the .22-20, was based on the .25-20 Single Shot case. Glad to have that cleared up. Such a multiplicity of very similar cartridges: not only the .22 WCF, but Stevens' own .22-15!


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BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: .22 Hornet quiz. Reply #16 - Mar 13^th, 2018 at 3:46pm	Print Post
	Redsetter wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 9:08am: uscra112 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 8:43am: Harwood's Hornet, also called the .22-20, was based on the .25-20 Single Shot case. Glad to have that cleared up. Such a multiplicity of very similar cartridges: not only the .22 WCF, but Stevens' own .22-15! Except that Stevens' own .22-15 (-60) wasn't a bottlenecked case.

	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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Redsetter Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3468 Location: New York Joined: Aug 6^th, 2013	Re: .22 Hornet quiz. Reply #17 - Mar 13^th, 2018 at 4:10pm	Print Post
	BP wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 3:46pm: Except that Stevens' own .22-15 (-60) wasn't a bottlenecked case. Making it a straight case, when BP was the only propellant, was probably Stevens' justification for claiming it offered an advantage over the .22 WCF's bottle-necked case, with an almost identical powder charge. But then smokeless came along & made such a long case a liability, not an advantage.


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BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: .22 Hornet quiz. Reply #18 - Mar 13^th, 2018 at 4:24pm	Print Post
	Redsetter wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 4:10pm: BP wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 3:46pm: Except that Stevens' own .22-15 (-60) wasn't a bottlenecked case. Making it a straight case, when BP was the only propellant, was probably Stevens' justification for claiming it offered an advantage over the .22 WCF's bottle-necked case, with an almost identical powder charge. But then smokeless came along & made such a long case a liability, not an advantage. Actually, Stevens specifically noted that the 22-15-60 case could also be loaded as a .22-3-32, .22-5-40, .22-7-46, .22-10-46, and .22-13-46 (.22-15-46) which gave the black powder era shooter many load options, before smokeless powder came along.

	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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rkba2nd Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1912 Location: earth Joined: Feb 16^th, 2009	Re: .22 Hornet quiz. Reply #19 - Mar 13^th, 2018 at 5:16pm	Print Post
	For those interested, there is more anecdotal information in Colonel Whelen's book, Mister Rifleman, in the varmint rifles chapter, starting on page 151.

	rkba2nd
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only1shot Junior Member Offline Posts: 57 Location: Burton, Michigan Joined: Mar 27^th, 2015	Re: .22 Hornet quiz. Reply #20 - Mar 14^th, 2018 at 3:37pm	Print Post
	Hi all: As usual, this forum has many members with lots of knowledge! Here are the answers to the quiz. I got all of my information from the 1998/52nd Annual Edition of Gun Digest. The article was written by Mark K. Benenson, pages 82-91. 1. U.S. Army Ordnance Department Captain Grosvenor L Wotkyns. 2. BSA 12 (Martini). 3. 23-Inch rechambered Springfield Armory M1922 rimfire barrel. 4. Seymour Griffin of Griffin & Howe. 5. George Titherington of Stockton, California. 6. Fecker. 7. 1 1/8" 10x. 8. Colonel Townsend Whelen, 1929-30. 9. Wotkyns, Woody,Whelen, and Woodworth. Wotkyns' cartridge was based on the old 22-13-45 WCF blackpowder lead bullet load. I really enjoyed seeing all of the contributions to the quiz! Thank you, Bill.


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.22-5-40 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 792 Joined: Feb 13^th, 2010	Re: .22 Hornet quiz. Reply #21 - Mar 17^th, 2018 at 11:25am	Print Post
	Years ago, at a Michigan antique arms show, I picked up an Ideal #4 tong tool marked .22-20. Not knowing much about these things then, I assumed it was for the modern .22 Hornet..and others told me that it was so. Later I found sizing cavity much larger than either .22 WCF. case or later Hornet brass. Intrestingly, the mould cavity is the same as the .22 WCF. 45gr. I guess those woodchuck hunters of the late 1890's weren't so different than the varmint hunters of today..looking for more velocity & flatter trajectorys.


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Redsetter Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3468 Location: New York Joined: Aug 6^th, 2013	Re: .22 Hornet quiz. Reply #22 - Mar 17^th, 2018 at 11:31am	Print Post
	.22-5-40 wrote on Mar 17^th, 2018 at 11:25am: Years ago, at a Michigan antique arms show, I picked up an Ideal #4 tong tool marked .22-20. Not knowing much about these things then, I assumed it was for the modern .22 Hornet..and others told me that it was so. Later I found sizing cavity much larger than either .22 WCF. case or later Hornet brass. Intrestingly, the mould cavity is the same as the .22 WCF. 45gr. I guess those woodchuck hunters of the late 1890's weren't so different than the varmint hunters of today..looking for more velocity & flatter trajectorys. Amazing! GOT to be one of the rarest of all Ideal tools!


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John Boy Ex Member	Re: .22 Hornet quiz. Reply #23 - Mar 17^th, 2018 at 1:25pm	Print Post
	(You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)


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Redsetter Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3468 Location: New York Joined: Aug 6^th, 2013	Re: .22 Hornet quiz. Reply #24 - Mar 17^th, 2018 at 3:52pm	Print Post
	Quote: (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) Though citing Whelen as developer is incorrect, it's pretty surprising that whoever prepared this (possibly a European) had heard of Harwood's Hornet, which isn't even listed in Barnes. Too bad Wiki doesn't provide an easy way to make corrections, or notify someone who could so.


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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: .22 Hornet quiz. Reply #25 - Mar 17^th, 2018 at 8:30pm	Print Post
	Several years ago you could create a free account, log in and make corrections. The trouble was whom ever had the most posts had priority whether they knew what they were talking about or not. I believe there are business and financial people out there who prefer the truth never be known.

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: .22 Hornet quiz. Reply #26 - Jun 9^th, 2018 at 9:25pm	Print Post
	Quote: (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) If the .22 Hornet was " formed by necking down .25-20 Single Shot brass to .22 caliber" why would the .25 Hronet noit b e a traditional .25 when the Hronet is blown back out to .25-20?

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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beltfed Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1749 Location: Central Wi Joined: Dec 20^th, 2007	Re: .22 Hornet quiz. Reply #27 - Jun 10^th, 2018 at 5:20pm	Print Post
	FWIW, My Ruger No 3 ,cal 22 Hornet uses some 22 WCF brass I have just as well as the more modern 22 Hornet brass. Essentially same dimensions, use same Hornet dies to reload them. To me, the Hornet is just a warmed over/renamed 22WCF. beltfed/arnie


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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: .22 Hornet quiz. Reply #28 - Jun 10^th, 2018 at 5:30pm	Print Post
	Me too I think I will just call mine what it really is, 25-20.

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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beltfed Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1749 Location: Central Wi Joined: Dec 20^th, 2007	Re: .22 Hornet quiz. Reply #29 - Jun 10^th, 2018 at 7:31pm	Print Post
	22-20?


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