Schuetzenmiester wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 5:42pm:


Just by looking at reproduced targets in Edwin Perry's 1880 book called "Modern Observations on Rifle Shooting".   Several years ago Kenny Wasserburger found an archived copy of this old book and had it reprinted.   Then Buffalo Arms had a bunch made.  It is a very interesting book and much of it is still relevant today.  It's the most comprehensive thing I've seen, by far, on match shooting in the old days.

The book contains, amongst other things, shot plots for targets in old matches.  You can pretty much overlay a modern target on the drawings ( which use the ancient Creedmoor target ) and see about what the targets would score.  The top shooters look like they'd be competitive today, although of course the competition format has changed.   

Chris.
   

gunlaker wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 4:32pm:


You touched on a point I've pondered often too! I own an original Ballard #7 Long Range rifle in .44-100 Ballard, and built to conform to the weight and length rules used for Creedmoor matches. It has the 34" barrel, cut half octagon to meet the 10 lb. weight limit. Single trigger as required, and shotgun buttplate. With full loads of BP and the mold dropping 535 gr. paper patched bullets, it's extremely abusive! So much so that I switched to a 380 gr. grease groove bullet that is more comfortable, and still shoots well.
I can't imagine shooting a Creedmoor match, (even with longer times allowed) and not being so sore I'd have to stop shooting before the match was complete. Those light guns and heavy calibers must have been brutal on shooters with the metal or hard rubber buttplates! Tough guys!

And if you look at the good targets shot in the book "The Story Of Pope's Barrels" that few have equaled today and if so not by many and one would then get a much more honest representation of the extreme accuracy capabilities of the day. Those shot by John D Kelly with his 38-72 Kelly Pope Ballard are a true marvel to look at as we're some of those being shot by other Schuetzen benchrest competitors of the day. 

JLouis

gunlaker wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 6:02pm:


Maybe the improvements I noticed were because of what was forgotten and the boyz were just getting back to normal   

Schuetzenmiester wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:35pm:


Good question. I bet nobody took as long to shoot their record as Rowland did! I heard he took two days to shoot the 10 shot record. He may also have shot it in an abandoned mine shaft. I read somewhere that he used an old mine shaft to do testing when he didn't want weather to impair his shots.

Yes, Rowland's record was not set in a match, but he was far from a hobbyist shooter. He regularly competed in matches at the famed Denver Rifle Club, and his scores were posted in the monthly shooting match records of the era. 
Another thing to consider is CW Rowland set that record using black powder, not smokeless powder. I'm not sure his record has ever been beaten by anyone attempting it with black powder?

On the subject of C.W. Roland's record target, I also read somewhere that he shot it in a mine shaft. I doubt that is fact. Shooting and Fishing magazine published a photo of the target in 1901 and among the notes he wrote on the target are:
No Wind
Sprinkling
That would hardly be worth noting if he had been in a mine shaft.