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Bismuth in lead (Read 3219 times)

oughtsix Global Moderator ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1362 Location: Columbus Joined: May 31^st, 2009	Bismuth in lead Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 4:53pm	Print Post
	A local scrap yard has an analysis gun they use to determine the composition of a metal. I took some lead down for analysis and it contained 0.70% Bismuth and the guy seemed to think that may be significant. Is it? there are a few trace elements in the mix but it is 99% lead. After melting into Lyman ingots, it sure has a pretty purplish color, like oil on water Thanks, -06

	Life Member ASSRA, OGCA & TSGC I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters........ Frank Lloyd Wright
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Fred Boulton Oldtimer Offline Posts: 801 Joined: Jan 6^th, 2007	Re: Bismuth in lead Reply #1 - Feb 24^th, 2018 at 6:58am	Print Post
	Bismuth causes your mix to expand on solidifying, thus improving the fill-out of the mold and giving well defined edges on the bullets. A very good thing to have. Fred


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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7732 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: Bismuth in lead Reply #2 - Feb 24^th, 2018 at 7:26am	Print Post
	Interesting, Roto Metals sells Bismuth Shot. Be easy to put a little bit into your mix if it improves results. Having said that I don’t have fill out problems and Bismuth Shot is 17 dollars per pound. Probably going to split a 10 lb # 2 Shot Bismuth order for Goose hunting with Vintage SXS guns with two friends. May hold some back to try in my 32/40 BS loads. Fred any advice on % and if effects performance. Bismuth is lighter but 1 % added ought to make a .07 % weight difference. If uniform insignificant Boats


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Marlene Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 276 Joined: Oct 30^th, 2015	Re: Bismuth in lead Reply #3 - Feb 24^th, 2018 at 5:21pm	Print Post
	The other place we have bismuth in our lives is Cerrosafe, which could easily make its way in to a batch of lead, intentionally or not.


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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Bismuth in lead Reply #4 - Feb 24^th, 2018 at 5:27pm	Print Post
	What about bismuth damaging old single shot barrels? Seems like there were issues with the nontoxic shot in older shotguns years ago.

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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Jeff_Schultz ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1661 Location: Ransomville, NY Joined: Apr 25^th, 2004	Re: Bismuth in lead Reply #5 - Feb 24^th, 2018 at 5:59pm	Print Post
	Schuetzenmiester wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 5:27pm: What about bismuth damaging old single shot barrels? Seems like there were issues with the nontoxic shot in older shotguns years ago. Bismuth shot is what to use in old shotguns when you have to use non-toxic shot. No worries.

	"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo “There is no situation so bad that it cannot be made worse." Confidence- The feeling you get before you fully understand the situation.
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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Bismuth in lead Reply #6 - Feb 24^th, 2018 at 6:10pm	Print Post
	Thank you. One less thing to worry about

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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svartkruttgris#369 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2980 Location: Colorado, Norway, Sweden Joined: Oct 28^th, 2014	Re: Bismuth in lead Reply #7 - Feb 24^th, 2018 at 10:42pm	Print Post
	Schuetzenmiester wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 5:27pm: What about bismuth damaging old single shot barrels? Seems like there were issues with the nontoxic shot in older shotguns years ago. Used bismuth shot in my old hammer doubles, one from 1890, for up to 20 years with no problems. Kills ducks and geese as well as Cu-plated hard Pb shot, mostly because bismuth shot drags very few feathers into flesh, giving excellent penetration. It also patterns tightly and quite uniformly in my old hammer doubles. Good stuff!!


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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7732 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: Bismuth in lead Reply #8 - Feb 25^th, 2018 at 8:31am	Print Post
	It’s the best non toxic, only disadvantage is the price. Boats


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John Boy Ex Member	Re: Bismuth in lead Reply #9 - Feb 25^th, 2018 at 12:24pm	Print Post
	At 0.70% Bismuth in the alloy - that's money in the bank ... (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)


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bnice Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1964 Location: Iowa Joined: Nov 30^th, 2006	Re: Bismuth in lead Reply #10 - Feb 25^th, 2018 at 1:36pm	Print Post
	Does anyone know to what affect it has on hardness?


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svartkruttgris#369 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2980 Location: Colorado, Norway, Sweden Joined: Oct 28^th, 2014	Re: Bismuth in lead Reply #11 - Feb 25^th, 2018 at 3:44pm	Print Post
	boats wrote on Feb 25^th, 2018 at 8:31am: It’s the best non toxic, only disadvantage is the price. Boats In addition to bismuth I have used Titanium Matrix ammo. It patterns more like ordinary Pb shot. Biggest drawback with it is that makers raise the chamber pressures and velocities substantialy, and hence recoil, more than I am willing to subject my old hammer doubles to for long. Kills ducks and geese nicely, especially over decoys.


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UtahDave Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 396 Location: Heber City, Utah Joined: Aug 14^th, 2010	Re: Bismuth in lead Reply #12 - Feb 26^th, 2018 at 10:08am	Print Post
	I found an old paper on lead bismuth alloys. Quite interesting if you don't mind lots of science and metallurgy. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) Bismuth is less effective than tin in increasing alloy hardness or increasing the yield strength. I doubt you would even be able to see any difference from bismuth in the 0.7% range. It might be interesting to play around with some 10% to 20% bismuth in lead alloy but Bi is expensive. I think I will stick with tin and lead. Dave


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