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405 HB-45/70 (Read 7817 times)

J.G.Terry Participating Member Offline Posts: 28 Location: Chattanooga Joined: Jul 29^th, 2014	Re: 405 HB-45/70 Reply #15 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 9:52pm	Print Post
	I'll be glad to help with the information. We are on the same page on that bullet being designed specifically for the TD's. It does great with black powder. Using wheel weights may cause you some problems. WW may make your bullets too hard. The bullets need to bump up. This skirt failure has been discussed in threads in this forum. Would you like to make a serious bet about the high speed photos? I do not accept checks or credit cards.


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18063 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: 405 HB-45/70 Reply #16 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 10:18am	Print Post
	Not looking to make wagers, but would appreciate a link to those "easily found" photos or videos? I've not found them "easy" to find myself, and have searched off and on for days since you brought up the topic.

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J.G.Terry Participating Member Offline Posts: 28 Location: Chattanooga Joined: Jul 29^th, 2014	Re: 405 HB-45/70 Reply #17 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:20pm	Print Post
	Well, we finally got on the same page. The 405HB Lee was designed by J.S. Wolf for Trapdoor Springfield's. Do what you wish with them. If you Google the topic there is a wealth of information out there on minie balls to include problem with skirts. Give it a try. It will be a whole new world open to you. No bets on that one either,


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notlwonk Full Member Offline Posts: 166 Location: Coventry CT Joined: Dec 18^th, 2006	Re: 405 HB-45/70 Reply #18 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 6:10pm	Print Post
	marlinguy wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 10:18am: Not looking to make wagers, but would appreciate a link to those "easily found" photos or videos? I've not found them "easy" to find myself, and have searched off and on for days since you brought up the topic. A bunch of years back I had a Lyman black powder book that had photos of expanded skirts on the 58 cal. Minnie ball. I recall they had the bullets breaking a wire close to the muzzle to get the pics. I was shooting a 45 cal. ML at the time using one of the HB molds. If I pushed them too fast the accuracy went away. Casting with a harder alloy cured that. Book long gone, wore out the binding and the pages.


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18063 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: 405 HB-45/70 Reply #19 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 8:21pm	Print Post
	J.G.Terry wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:20pm: Well, we finally got on the same page. The 405HB Lee was designed by J.S. Wolf for Trapdoor Springfield's. Do what you wish with them. If you Google the topic there is a wealth of information out there on minie balls to include problem with skirts. Give it a try. It will be a whole new world open to you. No bets on that one either, You're very helpful! Since you wont even give me the search words you used on Google, I think I'm giving up. Maybe somebody else will be more help.

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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7732 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: 405 HB-45/70 Reply #20 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 9:49pm	Print Post
	Afraid I’m responsible, bringing the Minie into the discussion. It was a breakthrough bullet dramatically increased range and accuracy compared to round ball muskets. . They were extensively tested and as issued optional. Under 900 FPS moderate blackpowder charges and soft lead. Cast them hard push too fast they will fail. Far as I know there is no direct US Government link between Minnie bullets and Trapdoor bullets The Trapdoors 405 & 500 grain bullet went through perhaps even more testing and as developed optional for 45/70 cartridges. Cast from soft lead 459 - 460 it bumped up to bore diamater in rifles with inconsistent bore diamaters. Cast too hard likely to give poor results. Lyman and Lee molds orgin I have to speculate . They came out when casting with wheel weights was popular. Could be the hollow base was a attempt to compensate for harder alloys in oversized bores. Or perform well with light charges of smokeless powder at black powder velocity . I think they work well but can’t say from personal experience. I do have wolf’s book and it’s the best manual on loading for trapdoors. If he says the Lee works well I believe him. Having said,that I have shot and shot with a lot of trapdoors, have never seen any better bullet than the Arsenal style bullets cast and loaded as intended, soft about .459 - 460. It easily bumps up to bore size when loaded with black powder. Boats


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Ranch13 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 636 Location: East Central Wy. Joined: Jan 20^th, 2018	Re: 405 HB-45/70 Reply #21 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 11:12pm	Print Post
	Actually if you google up the Springfield rifle manual, the original specifications for the 45-70 bullet was for a bullet from 16-1 alloy, 1.1 inches long .458 diameter , that could have a hollow swaged in the base deep enough to bring the bullet to weight specifications, but not so deep as to affect accuracy.


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