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Smokeless powder -1885 SS HW (Read 4897 times)

SILVERTIP Participating Member Offline Posts: 43 Location: Mtns of New Mexico & Alabama Joined: Oct 1^st, 2017	Smokeless powder -1885 SS HW Jan 30^th, 2018 at 11:14pm	Print Post
	I have had some hunting success with a Winchester 1885 in 45-60. The bore is excellent and the rifle condition is very good. The rifle was made in 1887. It has responded to FFG and IMR 4227-pretty well. Twenty four grains of 4227 under a 400gr FP Oregon Trail bullet has proven sound and effective on coyotes and deer hunting. It is a relatively conservative loading, but I prefer to err on the side of caution. Sometimes place 5 grs of Unique under the BP- to provide cleaner burning of black powder. I use 30-32 grs of 4227 in a 45-70 S. Sharps. It responds well and is pretty accurate. BP is getting scarce in these parts. Open to suggestions, as I am very careful with the 1885.

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cheatin_charlie Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 429 Location: ohio Joined: Jan 10^th, 2009	Re: Smokeless powder -1885 SS HW Reply #1 - Jan 31^st, 2018 at 8:02am	Print Post
	For your use I would suggest 5744 it was developed for use in large cases. It is a good powder for hunting loads I believe. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)


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Premod70 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 873 Location: North Carolina Joined: Jan 16^th, 2016	Re: Smokeless powder -1885 SS HW Reply #2 - Jan 31^st, 2018 at 9:37am	Print Post
	I second the 5744, another one that's good is IMR 4198.


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beltfed Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1826 Location: Central Wi Joined: Dec 20^th, 2007	Re: Smokeless powder -1885 SS HW Reply #3 - Jan 31^st, 2018 at 9:59am	Print Post
	My 1891 mfg 1886 Win responds well/accurately with: Lyman handbook load: 48 gr 3031 under 385 gr 457483 gc bullet for about 1740fps. NO pressure signs. Alternative is now 50 gr Varget. Has killed a number of deer nicely for yrs of my deer hunting from 1963 thru 1988. All "one shot one kill" in the Northern WI woods. beltfed/arnie
	« Last Edit: Jan 31^st, 2018 at 10:00pm by beltfed »

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cheatin_charlie Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 429 Location: ohio Joined: Jan 10^th, 2009	Re: Smokeless powder -1885 SS HW Reply #4 - Jan 31^st, 2018 at 5:54pm	Print Post
	385g bullet with 50g Reloader 7 sounds a might hot to me. Alliant max with 300g bullet is 47g for 2000 fps. I would rather be cautious than wrong. Remember he is shooting an original Winchester HI Wall with a barrel that was made for blackpowder unless it is a nickle steel barrel for smokless.


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beltfed Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1826 Location: Central Wi Joined: Dec 20^th, 2007	Re: Smokeless powder -1885 SS HW Reply #5 - Jan 31^st, 2018 at 9:15pm	Print Post
	That 3031 load I mentioned was listed as being under the generally accepted 28K psi for '86 win,etc. The High wall is stronger if anything. Was even factory chambered for the 30 USA. (45K psi) beltfed/arnie
	« Last Edit: Jan 31^st, 2018 at 10:01pm by beltfed »

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beltfed Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1826 Location: Central Wi Joined: Dec 20^th, 2007	Re: Smokeless powder -1885 SS HW Reply #6 - Jan 31^st, 2018 at 10:05pm	Print Post
	Cheatin Charlie, AND SILVERTIP: That 50 gr load with Re 7 was intended/used under my 315 gr RCBS FPGC bullet. my Marlin 1885 Guide gun likes this load. I have corrected the above entry to read: 385 gr over 50 gr Varget as a newer alternative to the 48 gr 3031 under the 385 gr cast gc bullet for the '86 win beltfed/arnie


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Online Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18064 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Smokeless powder -1885 SS HW Reply #7 - Feb 1^st, 2018 at 11:38am	Print Post
	Just be careful not to use any wads with 5744!

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cheatin_charlie Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 429 Location: ohio Joined: Jan 10^th, 2009	Re: Smokeless powder -1885 SS HW Reply #8 - Feb 1^st, 2018 at 12:23pm	Print Post
	At one time I owned a hi wall chambered for 30-40 with a factory barrel but it was a nickle steel barrel proofed with nitro powder and marked as such. The action is plenty strong but the old barrels were not were not proofed for nitro powder applications. I am just be careful with smokeless pressure in low pressure original barrels. If I am wrong I stand corrected.


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calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3976 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: Smokeless powder -1885 SS HW Reply #9 - Feb 1^st, 2018 at 1:21pm	Print Post
	I belive that all of the .30 US barrels Winchester used were nickel steel. Mine is, not marked for smokeless specifically, but bearing the nickel steel imprint. As for smokeless in other barrels, many have been shot for decades, even "back in the day" when it became available as loaded ammo. Why do we question this practice nowadays? My original rifles will never see a speck of black while I own 'em. Carry on, gents.


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cheatin_charlie Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 429 Location: ohio Joined: Jan 10^th, 2009	Re: Smokeless powder -1885 SS HW Reply #10 - Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:37pm	Print Post
	The question I had was the loads that were listed were above what are considered black powder equivalent loads. I use smokeless also but loaded to save limits. To quote the original poster "It is a relatively conservative loading, but I prefer to err on the side of caution" I felt the loads that were posted were not conservative loads for a blackpowder barrel. His nice original HI Wall has survived for 130 years, with conservative loads it will last at least 130 years more. A 400g lead bullet traveling at blackpowder velocities is not a wimp load.


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calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3976 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: Smokeless powder -1885 SS HW Reply #11 - Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:03pm	Print Post
	Gotcha, Charlie. While I don't think his loads are particularly high (in that rifle), I see your point. Believe me, I would never do anything to harm a rifle, particularly my oldtimers that have made it this far. And, I was pointing out that the nickel steel barrel wasn't a requirement for smokeless unless higher pressures were being used.


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cheatin_charlie Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 429 Location: ohio Joined: Jan 10^th, 2009	Re: Smokeless powder -1885 SS HW Reply #12 - Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:08pm	Print Post
	I think we are both in agreement. Have a good day.


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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4234 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: Smokeless powder -1885 SS HW Reply #13 - Feb 4^th, 2018 at 3:07pm	Print Post
	Smokeless load velocities that are close to black powder loads were obtained from using SR4759 and XMP5744. XMP5744 provided my best groups. For higher velocities for hunting I will use Varget for 1400 fps and for 1700 fps I use IMR3031. 1885 High Walls have much better strength charachterisitcs than many of the other single shot rifles (Ballard, Rolling Block etc.). But make sure you stay within the guidelines for the powder recommendations for the bullet you are using. Too frequently people apply the same data from a different bullet than they are using and do not realize they have exceeded the specification for the bullet they are using. That was part of the problem of the fellow who blew up a rifle with XMP5744 in addition to using a wad.
	« Last Edit: Feb 4^th, 2018 at 3:15pm by Schuetzendave »

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J.G.Terry Participating Member Offline Posts: 28 Location: Chattanooga Joined: Jul 29^th, 2014	Re: Smokeless powder -1885 SS HW Reply #14 - Mar 7^th, 2018 at 10:38pm	Print Post
	Not a slam on 5744: One of the more traumatic reloading experiences happened with 5744 some years back. This was with my 1892 vintage 1885. What was a starting TD load in one data source was the maximum load by the powder maker. The same situation showed up with 45-90. Point being for me is to double check data. In my case there was no damage to rifle. Had it been a TD it may have been different.


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