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Mick B
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Thinking of trying PP in a 40/60
Dec 12th, 2017 at 6:24pm
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I have a CPA in 40/60 Maynard and I'm toying with the idea of trying PP bullets in it.
The barrel is a Krieger 1-16, groove dia is .408 I believe.
What bullet diameter should I order when I will be using 9# onion skin from BACo, which I happen to have from previous experiments with my 45/90.
BACo seem to have a good selection of PP moulds so my selection will probably be made from among that group.
Mike.
  
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4060may
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Re: Thinking of trying PP in a 40/60
Reply #1 - Dec 12th, 2017 at 11:01pm
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in my 40-60 Maynard, Rolling block, Douglas 1-16 T
for groove dia bullets .400 patched to .4075-.408, 400gr bullet, same bullet sized to .395 patched to .400-.401, for Bore dia. bullets

Groove dia bullets shoot best in mine, 62grs OE 1 1/2F, poly wad, Fiocchi LP primers, or Fed 210GM

for shooting paper patch I use bore pigs, made with a nylon brush and the wiping cylinders from BACO, using plain water
  
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beltfed
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Re: Thinking of trying PP in a 40/60
Reply #2 - Dec 13th, 2017 at 12:18pm
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Take a look at this Elliptical/Prolate nose PP designed for 16 twist. Wt  is 373gr in 9+1 ww/lino
Its 1.325" long for good stability in my 40-65 out to 1K.
May be a good fit in your 40-60.
beltfed/arnie
  
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RSW
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Re: Thinking of trying PP in a 40/60
Reply #3 - Dec 13th, 2017 at 2:06pm
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beltfed/arnie 
That's a very nice group. At what distance did you shoot it?
Is your patched bullet bore or groove diameter?
If you are willing to share info, there are a few of us 40-65 PPB shooters who would like to know your load and fouling control regimen.
I have a very similar bullet that I shoot in my 40-65 Ballard that has a slight taper rather than straight body diameter.
Thanks
  

Randy W
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gunlaker
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Re: Thinking of trying PP in a 40/60
Reply #4 - Dec 13th, 2017 at 4:22pm
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Mike if you have access to some pin gauges then you can wrap them and see how they fit in the bore.

If you have a breech seater you can go a little larger than if you are using fixed ammunition.  I have a CPA that I shoot breech seated elliptical bullets in.  The bullets are around 0.002" over bore.  Way too much to insert them with your thumb, but the Webber breach seater has no trouble with them.

Chris.
  
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Mick B
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Re: Thinking of trying PP in a 40/60
Reply #5 - Dec 13th, 2017 at 6:39pm
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Thanks for all the replies, firstly I should mention that I shoot in a black powder club, so the use of smokeless powder is a no no.
Secondly I was hoping not to enlarge my mould collection any more than necessary, hopefully just buy one mould.
Whilst I have a Webber breach seater I mainly shoot fixed ammunition as it's easier with black powder ( no case scaping, de capping, re capping after each shot etc ).
Distances shot at our club are between 100 m and 200 m, so long range accuracy is not so important as short range.
Unfortunately I do not have access to any pin gauges, possibly I might find a selection of drills that would suffice.
My intention was to source a bullet from the selection offered by BACo that when patched with two wraps of the 9# onion skin would be a slip fit into my bore when using fixed ammunition.
Two listings in my BACo catalogue show the following bullets that may be suitable, these are JIM3944 420 gr,.394" dia, 1.400"  long,  or JIM395400 400 gr, .395" dia, 1.325" long. Just a thought but would the difference in length between the above two make much difference in my 1-16 barrel ?.
I did consider ordering a few swaged PP bullets in different sizes to try but, the cost of postage and the fact that BACo may not send them to Australia, finished that idea.
Mike.

  
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beltfed
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Re: Thinking of trying PP in a 40/60
Reply #6 - Dec 13th, 2017 at 7:35pm
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RSW:

beltfed/arnie 
That's a very nice group. At what distance did you shoot it?100yds
Is your patched bullet bore or groove diameter?Both:base band patches to groove body patches to bore.
If you are willing to share info, there are a few of us 40-65 PPB shooters who would like to know your load and fouling control regimen.load is 74.5gr Swiss 1.5. Fouling control is two wet, one dry wipe.
I have a very similar bullet that I shoot in my 40-65 Ballard that has a slight taper rather than straight body diameter.
Thanks
  
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Hiwall55
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Re: Thinking of trying PP in a 40/60
Reply #7 - Dec 13th, 2017 at 7:59pm
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I shoot the JIM 395 400 in my 40-60M,40-65 and 40-70 and to 600 it shoots just fine.
  
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gunlaker
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Re: Thinking of trying PP in a 40/60
Reply #8 - Dec 13th, 2017 at 8:01pm
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Arnie can tell you better about stabilization in a .40 and bullet length.  I do know that at shorter distances you can get away with a longer bullet than at long ranges.  My .45-70 with a 1:18 twist shoots a 1.51" long bullet very well at 550 yards,  but it might not be advisable at further distances.

I use some 9 lb paper from Buffalo Arms that I bought some time ago.  I don't know if it's the same as yours but it's approx 0.002" thick and is watermarked "Esleeck".  I use it dry patched on 0.443" bullets and wet patched on .444" bullets in a 0.450" bore so maybe this is useful to you.

These days, when shooting my schuetzen rifles with black powder I charge the cases at home, but still breech seat.  I think there is a measurable accuracy advantage for me.

Chris.
  
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Mick B
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Re: Thinking of trying PP in a 40/60
Reply #9 - Dec 13th, 2017 at 9:36pm
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Highwall55
I will go with the JIM 395 400 mould and give that a go. I currently have a lead pot full of 20-1 alloy and was going to use this, perhaps something softer may be better with a bullet wrapped to bore size.
My experiments some time ago with the 45/90 at 100 m showed very little difference in accuracy between PP and GG bullets, I never tried all that much with breech seating the bullets.  I did try charging the cases at home but on a couple of occasions the wad fell out of some in transit, leaving a big mess. Also I was under the impression that one of the major advantages of using the same case all the time was to avoid variations that may exist in one case to another, the pre charged case certainly saved a lot of time though.
Mike.
  
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gunlaker
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Re: Thinking of trying PP in a 40/60
Reply #10 - Dec 13th, 2017 at 9:45pm
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You are probably right about the case capacity variance, but I think that the advantages gained from breech seating are greater than those gained by these case capacity variations.  At least with a weak powder like BP.

I have found that there are other factors when using a single case for BP.  First is that it's difficult to get all of the fouling out of the case.  I sectioned a .32-40 case and made a scraper that fit perfectly in the inside of the web ( and accounted for the raised area near the primer hole ).  This helped, but I think some fouling always gets missed which might negate case capacity differences.  Another problem I encountered was that on a humid day, any remaining fouling very quickly absorbs moisture, thus adding moisture to the next powder charge.   

I think shooting a single case works better for smokeless where it's really a no-brainer.  Unless you double charge Smiley

Chris.
  
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Mick B
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Re: Thinking of trying PP in a 40/60
Reply #11 - Dec 13th, 2017 at 10:55pm
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Chris
I did have a scraper for the 45/90 case made after reading Randy's book on paper patching, I also had a primer pocket scraper. As I said  before It was all a lot of messing around for little gain at 100m. The ammo certainly looks traditional though.
All this experimenting will help keep me occupied and out of mischief in my old age.
Mike.
  
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Mick B
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Re: Thinking of trying PP in a 40/60
Reply #12 - Dec 13th, 2017 at 11:04pm
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Just tried ordering the mould from BACo, they are out of stock. have requested a possible delivery time.
Mike.
  
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bruce moulds
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Re: Thinking of trying PP in a 40/60
Reply #13 - Dec 14th, 2017 at 3:07pm
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a 0.395 bullet will patch to bigger than 0.400 with baco 9 lb onion skin.
this paper will add at leas 0.006 diameter wet patched, and at least 0.007 dry patched.
seth cole 55w will add about 0.005 wet patched.
check your bore diameter.
you can wrap a bolt or anything to get the added thickness when wrapping, and this will tell you what diameter mould to buy.
take heed of arnies advice re bullet length.
he has experience in this.
kal moulds can make you a dual diameter mould that will fit in the bore, and also be a neat fit in fired cases of a greaser chamber.
he can do an elliptical nose.
set it up so there is about 1/8" to 1/10" of bullet in the case and it fits the case and the bore and it will shoot.
keep safe,
bruce.
« Last Edit: Dec 14th, 2017 at 3:14pm by bruce moulds »  

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Mick B
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Re: Thinking of trying PP in a 40/60
Reply #14 - Dec 14th, 2017 at 5:50pm
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Call me a quitter but this looks like heading for the "too hard basket"
Mike.
  
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