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desmoore
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Westley Richards value ?
Dec 12th, 2017 at 12:33pm
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Hi I found a Westley Richards falling block in a gun shop that is on consignment.
It is a 1873 Deeley & Edge patent, maybe was a 450 #2 ?
The shop says it is chambered for 348, win. ?
It is of little collector value, the but stock has been broken off and poorly reattached, customized, reblued and over buffed about 90%. The widow that owns the rifle wants $1,500.
I don't think it will bring anything like that. 
I think I would like to restock it, and shoot it.
I would appreciate  your thoughts on the value and the quality of the action.

Thanks Jim
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Westley Richards value ?
Reply #1 - Dec 12th, 2017 at 8:23pm
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I seem to remember shooting an 1867 WR in 500-450 #2 Musket using 348 brass 50 years or so ago but the details elude me now. In the 1970's I bought an 1873 in London for $100. It was in 360 WR. Wish I still had it in spite of the fact that it had a propensity for going off when closing the lever because the complete trigger guard was on the lever and in closing under certain circumstances could drag on the trigger. Nowadays I would just relieve the heck out of the guard. I saw that rifle in a shop maybe 10 years ago and it was up to $900 or so.
  
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boats
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Re: Westley Richards value ?
Reply #2 - Dec 13th, 2017 at 6:42am
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Collectors not likely buy a rough gun at any price. There are a few English falling block enthusiasts that shoot the guns. Most active at the annual Vintage cup were I assist in the running target event. Even shooters don’t use guns that look bad, different from Schuetzen were a rifle is judged by its performance.

That leaves two possable groups of buyers. Someone who wants to restore of rebuild. Paying for the work you have restock, 1000 dollars absolute minimum, rebarrel 600 refinish 500 and the does the action need repair.  It’s easy to put 2500 dollars into a gun as you describe. Doing the work yourself 1000 dollars would be a cheap price. Job finished to still a rebuilt wreck .

It’s possable to buy a nice English falling block, not a perfect collector, shooter grade for 2-3 thousand dollars which to me makes buying a rough gun a bad proposition at any price. I am in the market for a shootable English single shot like that WR and would not consider one as you describe.

Other class of buyer, someone who makes expensive mistakes, only one likely to pay 1500 dollars.  

If you could do the stock work yourself and had a economical way to get rid of a poor caliber choice & switch to a proper English caliber, 500 or less for the action may be a reasonable buy. Ruger # 1 at $ 1000 or a English Gun well worn no mechanical issues at 2500 or less better choice. 

Boats 

« Last Edit: Dec 13th, 2017 at 6:47am by boats »  
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Fazer
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Re: Westley Richards value ?
Reply #3 - Dec 13th, 2017 at 1:48pm
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I would look at the caliber. I have used 348 Win for forming a few other cases. They maybe going on an old reformed case made from 348. What bore is the barrel. 

The #2 Musket, is an easy round to shoot and brass is easy to get. So if it is still in that caliber and has a decent bore, so much the better.

As Boats says if you can do some of the stock work your self, and you just want a shooter, it could be viable. Maybe at not quite that price, but...



  
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oneatatime
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Re: Westley Richards value ?
Reply #4 - Dec 13th, 2017 at 5:06pm
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I'm sure MartiniBelgian will weigh in on the virtues of the #2 Musket eventually.
  
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desmoore
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Re: Westley Richards value ?
Reply #5 - Dec 13th, 2017 at 9:50pm
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This is some really good information.
I still would like to hear how the action works, do they feed and
eject smoothly without a lot of effort?
I am going to make standing offer of $450. that has worked be for. Last time I made an offer of $325. on a beautiful HWZ got
a call a few weeks later to come get it.
  
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boats
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Re: Westley Richards value ?
Reply #6 - Dec 14th, 2017 at 7:55am
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I am no expert, but since nobody else answered.

Most of us can take Winchester Stevens Ballard Ruger etc single shots apart and put them back together. Pins springs hammers triggers etc are available from several sources old or newly made.  Good advice available on this forum. 

English guns another matter. Westley Richard made rifles for a very long time many variations.  English firearms noted for hand fitting. Parts rarely interchange. Few gunsmiths in America will work on English Shotguns the one that are competent, English trained. One I know won’t touch a rifle he’s shotguns only. 

Point is buying a rough English rifle has pitfalls. That’s why I am looking for one that’s suits my needs and ready to go no issues. About the only one I would want to tinker with is a Martini.

Boats
  
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boats
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Re: Westley Richards value ?
Reply #7 - Dec 14th, 2017 at 10:34am
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Another point, and the one I keep hanging on. I want a nice hunting falling block single shot & like to have a English gun with “class” Ruger # 1 is a better choice. Thousand dollars they work well. Watching a lot of singles shots shoot our running target course the Rugers loads fires and ejects flawlessly .   Accuracy enthusiast like ASSRA members sometimes have issues with the Rugers. I don’t expect target performance like my 3 CPA rifles from a hunting & running target rifle.   

If I don’t find the right English gun will buy a Ruger
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Westley Richards value ?
Reply #8 - Dec 14th, 2017 at 1:05pm
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Desmoore, all the Deeley and Edge rifles work fine. They do extract and not eject although I suppose you could hold the barrel straight up and open the lever smartly and have the case fall out. The safety on the 73 being a rotary by the trigger is not so quick to operate. I think the 78 had the same. The 81 has a tang safety as does the most desirable the 97. Here's a thread on the 73 in 450 #2: (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
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Huvius
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Re: Westley Richards value ?
Reply #9 - Dec 14th, 2017 at 9:41pm
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Oneatatime, the 1881 usually had a safety on the right side above the trigger as did many ‘97s, the top tang safeties being more rare.

Boats, describe what you are looking for.  I may just have something.
Desmoore, I know all about dropping too much money into a project falling block.  Your plan of making an offer and waiting it out sounds good IMO.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Westley Richards value ?
Reply #10 - Dec 15th, 2017 at 12:50am
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Huvius, you are so right. The 81 safety by the trigger slides instead of turns which is much quicker than the turning one on the 73. I must have been thinking about the 1902 Webley which even has an automatic safety which I always thought weird on a dangerous game rifle.
  
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Old-Win
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Re: Westley Richards value ?
Reply #11 - Dec 15th, 2017 at 11:31am
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The evolution of the safety on Westley Richards had them in several different spots. Most "Best Qualities" had a tang mounted safety.  Others had a sliding safety on the right side by the trigger guard or a rotating lever on the left side.
My 1881 D&E has no safety as it was a target gun. Bob
  
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coljimmy
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Re: Westley Richards value ?
Reply #12 - Dec 15th, 2017 at 11:47am
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I cant pass this up.  In 1959, I bought a Wesley Richards double 12 gauge, damascus barrels, for ten dollars, shimmed up the latch with a piece of roofing tin, tied it to an old tire and test fired it with a long string.  I then took it and a box of low velocity loads to a rabbit drive and killed a dozen jack rabbits with it.  A screw loosened up and one of the hammers fell off during the drive so I finished with a "single shot".  I then sold it "as is" a couple of months later for twelve fifty.  Fun on a tight budget.

James
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Westley Richards value ?
Reply #13 - Dec 15th, 2017 at 2:24pm
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And here is another safety on my Westley Richards "Improved Martini" in 500-450 #2 Musket. This was a $10 gun when I bought it 50 some odd years ago. The safety can be thumbed down very quickly. Coljimmy that wasn't a "W. Richards" was it? I got one of those $10 ones to make a muzzleloading double out of back in the 70s.
  
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Re: Westley Richards value ?
Reply #14 - Dec 15th, 2017 at 5:46pm
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The years have dimmed my memory a little, but I believe it was a W. Richards, somewhat beat up.  But I made $2.50 on it!

James
  
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