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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Strength of older single shots using smokeless (Read 23548 times)
svartkruttgris#369
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Re: Strength of older single shots using smokeless
Reply #60 - Dec 14th, 2017 at 1:11pm
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marlinguy wrote on Dec 14th, 2017 at 11:31am:
It always looked like a big challenge to me, and a lot of work too! But guys who endorse it usually aren't telling all the pointers and tips you guys have! They make it sound like a book called "Loading for Dummies" where a person can't screw up if he uses BP.
On the other hand those same people make smokeless powder loading sound like the devil's brew, and the most dangerous thing a gun owner could do!


Having loaded both since teenager, a cannot agree with either position. However, only presently available BP that is "easy" to get good results with is Swiss. With Goex, etc., OneAtAtime's post is a fair description of reality -- only "escape" from that reality is post-reloading partial or complete cleaning of bore after every shot (which is so ingrained that even shooters using Swiss, excellent bullets and lubes do it instead of developing loads that shoot small groups for 10-15 or more shots, no wiping). Some even admit that they are "scared" to NOT wipe, etc.

IF one were to follow High Power national matches, where provided ammo must be used, it soon becomes that at least for common cartridges, eg. 7,62X51 (aka 308 Win), there are some loads that shoot really well in a very wide range of rifles. Ditto for 7mm08, 6,5 X 55 Swedish Mauser, etc.
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Strength of older single shots using smokeless
Reply #61 - Dec 14th, 2017 at 2:04pm
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gunlaker wrote on Dec 13th, 2017 at 7:53pm:
Schuetzenmiester wrote on Dec 13th, 2017 at 7:33pm:
Chris, I agree 100%.  After the first international match at Ottawa, the next was in South Africa. There was a #10 ammo limit for flying then.  With 525 gr slugs, #10s doesn't go very far. They would have powder available on the other end.  Flying half way around the world to start developing a load to shoot 1,000 yards didn't appeal to me.  Shocked


That wouldn't appeal to me either.  That's one of the reasons that I drive to all of the matches rather than fly.  This would be trickier for South Africa unless you have a big boat  Cheesy

I know that Brent Danielson recently competed in South Africa.  I'm not sure if he is able to bring powder and primers with him.  That's some serious commitment!

Chris.

Unless the laws have become more lenient,  Roll Eyes  I doubt he took any powder with him. Not sure about primed cases. 

One time I thought traveling by train might make sense.  No way; firearms can be transported but no ammo.  That is more restrictive then flying.
  

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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

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Re: Strength of older single shots using smokeless
Reply #62 - Dec 14th, 2017 at 2:17pm
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It's not an issue if you ship your ammo to it's destination, and then travel there with the gun. Friend of mine shoots for Savage in International Long Range matches and that's how the team gets their personally loaded ammo to the events.
But black powder would be a whole different set of problems!
  

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Strength of older single shots using smokeless
Reply #63 - Dec 15th, 2017 at 2:26am
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Val, That is what we did going to Ottawa.  Ship it to an FFL in NY, flay to  Ottawa and drive down to NY to get it.
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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desert-dude
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Re: Strength of older single shots using smokeless
Reply #64 - Dec 15th, 2017 at 11:02am
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As to cartridge adhesion: take a look at some of the NATO proofing standards.
I was of the opinion that cartridge adhesion didn't count until I saw some data.
Lubrication of the case results in significant, meaning measurable, differences in thrust.
IIRC about 10%. Unfortunately, I didn't find a quote for thrust. 

NATO:
"Each weapon and component considered vulnerable to the effects of a rapid change in pressure, for example barrels, breech blocks and bolts, will be tested by firing one dry round at a corrected minimum of 25% over pressure and one oiled round at a corrected minimum of 25% over pressure. 25% over pressure means 25% in excess of the Service Pressure (P)."

IIRC double based powders are to be highly recommended for light loads as the tend to avoid the pressure spikes that sometimes happen with single based powder. Lots of data on the web. However, because of the energy available with double based powder one needs to keep their wits about them when loading. The idea of keeping the empty cases inverted until charged with powder; then immediately seat the bullet has always made sense to me. AFICT my head is still attached.
  
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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: Strength of older single shots using smokeless
Reply #65 - Dec 15th, 2017 at 3:31pm
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desert-dude wrote on Dec 15th, 2017 at 11:02am:
The idea of keeping the empty cases inverted until charged with powder; then immediately seat the bullet has always made sense to me. AFICT my head is still attached. 


One of those head-savers that were imprinted in my head long, long ago.
  
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