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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Matching the bullet to the barrel (Read 9015 times)
Old Soldier
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Matching the bullet to the barrel
Nov 29th, 2017 at 7:34pm
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Ken Lewis' article on page 22 in the Nov/Dec Journal says to get a custom bullet mold to "match the barrel, a small block Lyman does not cut it". Q: how does one go about matching the bullet to the barrel? I know that the bullet length needs to match the twist. I know the bullet diameter should be .001-.002 over groove diameter. What else goes into this? I will be shooting fixed ammo. Q2: What is so wrong with a Lyman "small block" mould? Is there more metal in a custom mold?
I'm not new to bullet casting, but have never forked out the $ for a custom mold. Why are the worth double the cost?
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Matching the bullet to the barrel
Reply #1 - Nov 29th, 2017 at 7:52pm
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first you have to figure out if you are going to be shooting fixed ammo or breech-seating for traditional Schuetzen since the way your bullet fits will depend on the method.  in any case you will want the bullet to be aligned straight and true to the bore with minimal lateral motion in the microseconds as it transitions into the rifles bore.

  
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marlinguy
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Re: Matching the bullet to the barrel
Reply #2 - Nov 29th, 2017 at 8:04pm
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Haven't seen Ken Lewis' article, but I'm sure it's a good one. I do wonder about the Lyman mold question myself, as I've had very good experiences with them personally. Maybe it's related to breech seating, as Lyman doesn't offer a tapered bullet mold, so trying to seat a bullet with no taper to the bands could be detrimental to accuracy.
I have molds from a lot of different makers, and some are extremely accurate in one gun, but the same bullet doesn't shoot as well in another gun of the same caliber. But that's part of what I think Ken might be saying when he says match the bullet to the bore. A Lyman might not have the exact diameter and shape to work with a particular gun. But then on some occasions it might just be the right bullet for a certain gun.
  
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JLouis
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Re: Matching the bullet to the barrel
Reply #3 - Nov 29th, 2017 at 8:07pm
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Me personally I like the small Lyman blocks and have enjoyed using them. When it comes to bullet fit allot of folks really kid themselves when the say I use a bullet a thou. or a half a thou. over groove dia. for best accuracy. If one is going for one thous. over groove diameter that is only 1/2 thous. per side. Take into consideration most chambers end up being cut within that range and bullet shrinkage in the mould changes based on alloy hardness it becomes an impossible task to accomplish our to maintain on a given day. With that being said three thousandths over groove has served me well and it also allows me to try various bullet hardnesses all having different shrinkage rates and to still be at hopefully groove diameter or slightly over. Being one who now cuts his own personal bullet moulds the in mould shrinkage rate is well beyond what one might think.
One does have some control over the run out of the chamber but one can not control the bullet shrinkage rates under the varying temp. conditions through out the year that does directly affect the exact as cast size of each bullet and even whlie  being cast under the same conditions they will vary in one lot of say a 100. 

JLouis
« Last Edit: Nov 29th, 2017 at 8:28pm by JLouis »  
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Re: Matching the bullet to the barrel
Reply #4 - Nov 29th, 2017 at 8:43pm
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All the production type molds are pot luck at best unless the seller has the alloy and measurements of a bullet cast from the mold. A custom mold is cheap money when one slugs the barrel and orders a mold to "fit" the dimensions of the slug. Mr. Louis is spot on about the too small thinking that goes in fitting the grooves.
  
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Re: Matching the bullet to the barrel
Reply #5 - Nov 29th, 2017 at 9:27pm
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     One of the best-shooting rifles that I have is one chambered for some Swiss gunsmith's notion of the "GP90" cartridge.   It takes a .328" diameter bullet to fill the leade and the GROOVE (sic) diameter of the barrel is .299". So the bullet is almost 1/32" larger than the groove diameter.  It shoots nearly MOA with fixed ammo.  Go figure.

CHRIS
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Old Soldier
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Re: Matching the bullet to the barrel
Reply #6 - Nov 29th, 2017 at 10:12pm
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Thanks for the answers. Mr. Lewis' article was a good one, and I thought he was going to teach me something about bullets that I did not know. From your comments, I guess not. What you have told me so far, I know. I'm not new to this, but work on it mostly alone, as the pool of SS shooters here about is small. Still curious about the custom mold comment. I've been happy for years with commercial molds, but may not know what I'm missing. Guess I'll have to buy one and see.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Matching the bullet to the barrel
Reply #7 - Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:48am
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I have Ideal Hudson molds for my .38-55 and .32-40 rifles. Those particular Ideal molds are probably my favorites of all Lyman and Ideal molds I own. And maybe my favorites of all the molds I own too!
  
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John Boy
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Re: Matching the bullet to the barrel
Reply #8 - Nov 30th, 2017 at 1:17pm
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Old Soldier - here is an article of the basic principles in the design of a good shooting bullet.  Granted, the article is based on  a jacket bullet but lead bullet has the same principles.
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The bullet design has to be designed with the quality characteristics of the barrel of the rifle too, including leade length & angle degree - bore quality, barrel sweet spot - button bored - tapered or non bore cut - type and number of groove cuts (height, width, round or angular) all packaged so the lead bullet provides better obturation based on the amount of bearing surface of the bullet.  And remember - the quality of the Pb bullet base and dimensions will be your best friend for quality shooting
Now, is a custom designed mold needed for quality accuracy with the hundreds of designs formulated over the last 150 years?  Not in my opinion. Excellent caliber specific bullet molds have ALREADY been designed by renowned gun cranks including Doc Hudson molds and are available commercially.  Of note, one of the later quality bullet designers was Dan Theodore with his 'Money Bullet" design
And with the advent of CNC machines, the quality of bullet molds are top rate
« Last Edit: Nov 30th, 2017 at 1:24pm by »  
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bruce moulds
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Re: Matching the bullet to the barrel
Reply #9 - Nov 30th, 2017 at 3:17pm
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black powder bullets have different design requirements to smokeless powder bullets.
this is because blac bumps bullets up more.
such bullets need to fill the unfired case, and fill the freebore if any, minimizing bumpup and hence potential changes that come with.
they also should not have a nose more than 1.5 calibres in length for the same reason.
keep safe,
bruce.
  
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Re: Matching the bullet to the barrel
Reply #10 - Nov 30th, 2017 at 6:09pm
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Bruce Molds, what includes the "nose"?
  
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John Boy
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Re: Matching the bullet to the barrel
Reply #11 - Nov 30th, 2017 at 6:15pm
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Red Cent - the technical name for the nose is ogive.  Do a search on the Internet for more detail.  A couple of good reference books in your library is an asset too  Wink
  
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Re: Matching the bullet to the barrel
Reply #12 - Nov 30th, 2017 at 6:35pm
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Know about the ogive. Never heard nose, at least, in what seemed a technical sense Smiley
  
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Re: Matching the bullet to the barrel
Reply #13 - Nov 30th, 2017 at 8:10pm
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Isn't there both a "nose" and the "ogive"?
As in, for example:
my  bullet has an "Elliptical Ogive culminating (or blending into) in a 1/2 caliber Hemispherical nose"
beltfed/arnie
  
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John Boy
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Re: Matching the bullet to the barrel
Reply #14 - Nov 30th, 2017 at 8:44pm
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In ballistics or aerodynamics, an ogive is a pointed, curved surface mainly used to form the approximately streamlined nose of a bullet or other projectile, reducing air resistance or the drag of air.

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From the metplat to the major diameter of the bullet(nose or ogive)
  
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