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Pope False Muzzle. (Read 20157 times)

FITZ-G Junior Member Offline Posts: 79 Joined: Jun 4^th, 2015	Re: Pope False Muzzle. Reply #15 - Sep 29^th, 2017 at 9:26pm	Print Post
	Bump! what IS THIS?


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16274 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Pope False Muzzle. Reply #16 - Oct 4^th, 2017 at 11:01pm	Print Post
	Bumping this back up for Fitz, so it might reappear!

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OLD TUCK Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 469 Location: Middleborough MA Joined: Oct 5^th, 2017	Re: Pope False Muzzle. Reply #17 - Nov 4^th, 2017 at 8:24pm	Print Post
	Bump! Regards, FITZ.


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OLD TUCK Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 469 Location: Middleborough MA Joined: Oct 5^th, 2017	Re: Pope False Muzzle. Reply #18 - Feb 18^th, 2018 at 8:20pm	Print Post
	Bump, just to try again. FITZ.


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John Boy Ex Member	Re: Pope False Muzzle. Reply #19 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 11:50pm	Print Post
	Quote: Pope bullet starter directly on the barrel, with no false muzzle. Never heard of such and wonder why these types of starters are not made commercially? They look easy enough to be made based on various barrel dimensions and would be the cat's meow to replicate the normal false muzzle seating the bullet so there are no fins on the bullet bases


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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Pope False Muzzle. Reply #20 - Feb 20^th, 2018 at 3:04am	Print Post
	Quote: Quote: Pope bullet starter directly on the barrel, with no false muzzle. Never heard of such and wonder why these types of starters are not made commercially? They look easy enough to be made based on various barrel dimensions and would be the cat's meow to replicate the normal false muzzle seating the bullet so there are no fins on the bullet bases They are rifled with the barrel. Tough to add on.

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Pope False Muzzle. Reply #21 - Feb 20^th, 2018 at 11:56am	Print Post
	Bob Z is correct it is pinned to the end of the barrel and reamed and rifled as one. That is why they are numbered to each rifle and all though one might come across one that fits it's doubt full the lands and grooves would then line up. JLouis

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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ledball Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1011 Location: syracuse, ohio Joined: Nov 20^th, 2009	Re: Pope False Muzzle. Reply #22 - Feb 20^th, 2018 at 12:24pm	Print Post
	I have Stevens-Pope 1740, I’ve been hoping for years that the false-muzzle would show-up. I made a bullet starter, but it’s not the same as having the real thing. 1740 is probably somewhere in Virginia. Ledball


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16274 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Pope False Muzzle. Reply #23 - Feb 20^th, 2018 at 12:53pm	Print Post
	Schuetzenmiester wrote on Feb 20^th, 2018 at 3:04am: Quote: Quote: Pope bullet starter directly on the barrel, with no false muzzle. Never heard of such and wonder why these types of starters are not made commercially? They look easy enough to be made based on various barrel dimensions and would be the cat's meow to replicate the normal false muzzle seating the bullet so there are no fins on the bullet bases They are rifled with the barrel. Tough to add on. Bob, John Boy said "starter" not false muzzle. The starter could be made as it has no rifling. But they couldn't be commercially made starters, as the fit to a barrel needs to be very close. And octagon barrels would give further issues, as they'd need the last 3/8"-1/2" turned round to accept a bullet starter. I've seen numerous old muzzleloaders with octagon barrels turned round to accept a started without false muzzle right on the crown. My Pope is a full round barrel, so no issue with it's starter directly on the barrel. But the fit is so snug it wont shake off if I hold it upside down and try to shake it off.

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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Pope False Muzzle. Reply #24 - Feb 20^th, 2018 at 1:25pm	Print Post
	Val so far the subject has been on false muzzles but if one wanted to make just the starter itself that is very doable as the false muzzle is itself already turned round to accomodate it. But if one does not have the false muzzle making a starter is really all for naught as it also protects the crown from being compromised amoung other things by it's overall design. JLouis

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Pope False Muzzle. Reply #25 - Feb 20^th, 2018 at 2:31pm	Print Post
	I reread that, Val, so he did. "replicate the normal false muzzle seating the bullet" not necessarily mass producing FM, just the seaters.

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16274 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Pope False Muzzle. Reply #26 - Feb 20^th, 2018 at 8:55pm	Print Post
	JLouis wrote on Feb 20^th, 2018 at 1:25pm: Val so far the subject has been on false muzzles but if one wanted to make just the starter itself that is very doable as the false muzzle is itself already turned round to accomodate it. But if one does not have the false muzzle making a starter is really all for naught as it also protects the crown from being compromised amoung other things by it's overall design. JLouis True John. But look at the hundreds of thousands of muzzleloaders that used starters without a false muzzle, or just ramrods without a false muzzle. It certainly isn't optimal, but if the starter fit snug then the chances of damaging the crown are certainly reduced vs. no starter to muzzleload. Somebody thought it was a feasible idea, or my Pope wouldn't be set up this way. My .28 Pope Special with starter on the barrel. Pope and Schoyen starters for use with false muzzles above it: (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)

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OLD TUCK Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 469 Location: Middleborough MA Joined: Oct 5^th, 2017	Re: Pope False Muzzle. Reply #27 - Feb 27^th, 2018 at 10:38pm	Print Post
	I would spend some time measuring the Bore to the outside edge of the Octagon over the corner. If it is close you could make a Bullet Starter type Seater to Muzzle load. You just would need to make sure your Machining would guarantee that the bore of the starter and the Inside Diameter that fit over the Octagon were really concentric. The Diameter of the Bullet plunger would also need to be smaller than the Bore of the barrel to ensure that it would not hit the Rifling and cause Damage. This would not be a perfect Muzzle Loading system but I would think be quite adequate. But other than a little fun shooting with Black and experimenting. MUZZLE LOADING IN A LONG MATCH IS A PAIN IN THE A&&. Ask me how I know. HTH regards, FITZ. OLD TUCK.


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16274 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Pope False Muzzle. Reply #28 - Feb 28^th, 2018 at 10:43am	Print Post
	I have two breech seating muzzleloading barrels Fitz, and they are indeed a PITA to shoot a lot using that method! One is a Schoyen in .38-55 and the other a Pope in .28 Special. Haven't shot the Pope much so far, but the Schoyen actually shoots breech seated and fixed ammo quite accurately. Surprising with the chamber lead it has, as I expected poor accuracy if not using it as a ML setup.

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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Pope False Muzzle. Reply #29 - Feb 28^th, 2018 at 2:15pm	Print Post
	My Stevens-Pope has no lead, the case ends and the rifling starts. It shoots just fine BS.

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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