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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Pope False Muzzle. (Read 20140 times)
FITZ-G
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Pope False Muzzle.
Sep 20th, 2017 at 9:02pm
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Looking for Pope False Muzzle #21. This is a Hartford Pope
in .33-40. This was from his early time when all he stamped was the False Muzzle itself, and sometimes the Barrel under the Fore End. None of his other Rifling fractions. This is a restoration effort. Have the complete Rifle, it would be good to
recover the False Muzzle. Looking forward to hearing from some one who may have run across it. Regards, FITZ-G Smiley
  
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Crown-C
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Re: Pope False Muzzle.
Reply #1 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 9:49pm
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Sorry FITZ-G, I have a Pope false muzzle #73 and no matching Pope rifle!
Wish you the best with putting yours back together.
Richard
  
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Joe Do...
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Re: Pope False Muzzle.
Reply #2 - Sep 21st, 2017 at 7:23am
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I don't mean to take away from FITZ's post but I am looking for false-muzzle No. 53.

Hope you guys find your missing pieces.

... Joe
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Pope False Muzzle.
Reply #3 - Sep 21st, 2017 at 8:55am
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Looked at images of your gun in Warren Greatbatch's two volume Pope book. What a great looking gun!
  
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Tom_Trevor assra life no.71
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Re: Pope False Muzzle.
Reply #4 - Sep 21st, 2017 at 11:57am
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Keep looking I found mine no. 690 on e-bay one day!
« Last Edit: Sep 21st, 2017 at 4:50pm by Tom_Trevor assra life no.71 »  
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FITZ-G
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Re: Pope False Muzzle.
Reply #5 - Sep 21st, 2017 at 6:23pm
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That's OK guy's. The more the merrier. If we get a lot of replies
some one may find one he has been looking for and did not post it. The Rifle I am working on has had a strange history. But it has been owned by some serious shooters and Collectors. Would be nice to find the Muzzle. Lets jut keep it going. HTH Regards, FITZ-G. Smiley
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Pope False Muzzle.
Reply #6 - Sep 21st, 2017 at 8:30pm
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My Pope is one of the rare ones that uses a Pope bullet starter directly on the barrel, with no false muzzle. It's a smaller version of my larger Pope bullet starter, and fits the barrel's OD very snugly. 

Here's a comparison picture for scale. Alongside is the aluminum starter from my Schoyen Ballard:

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LRF
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Re: Pope False Muzzle.
Reply #7 - Sep 23rd, 2017 at 9:43am
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Sorry Val, I am not familiar with your pope style of muzzle loading. Without a FM what aligns the bullet with the bore? Can you school me and maybe others on the procedure to ML the rifle?
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Pope False Muzzle.
Reply #8 - Sep 23rd, 2017 at 11:02am
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LRF wrote on Sep 23rd, 2017 at 9:43am:
Sorry Val, I am not familiar with your pope style of muzzle loading. Without a FM what aligns the bullet with the bore? Can you school me and maybe others on the procedure to ML the rifle?


The starter on my .28/.32-40 Pope barrel has a recess inside the starter that the bullet slips into. So once the bullet is inserted into the starter, it can be fitted over the muzzle and pushed into the bore. It works very well from what I see, but since I haven't had the gun long, I haven't fired it yet. 
In Warren Greatbatch's book he quotes Claude Roderick who said he had not seen another Pope ML barrel that had a starter fitted directly to the barrel, and wasn't sure how this one worked, as he had not personally inspected the gun.
  
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LRF
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Re: Pope False Muzzle.
Reply #9 - Sep 23rd, 2017 at 11:21am
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Vall,
Thanks I suspected that may be how it works. I do have a ML 45 cal bullet rifle that I built a number of years back which is patterned after a english sporting rifle. The bullet is a 450 grain grease groove and I have a bullet started section that precisely aligns the bullet centered and perpendicular to the bore. Then a bullet starter similar to all you have seen, is a fixed to the bullet section and the bullet is pushed into the rifling. Works very well and the rifle is extremely accurate out to 200 yards. (which is the farthest distance I have tested it at) 3" 3 shot groups are achieved at that distance. Note: cleaning is required between shots to get that accuracy. However, it is a hunting rifle and the first shot which is always out of a clean bore is all that counts anyway.
Thanks again
  
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CajunRebel
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Re: Pope False Muzzle.
Reply #10 - Sep 24th, 2017 at 5:59am
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Excuse my ignorance... I understand how a breech loader consistently places the bullet ahead of the case 1/16"(?).

How does a shooter place the bullet consistently, i.e., flush against the case, ramrod with a stop?

Can smokeless powder 😱 be used for this discipline, e.g., to much velocity too soon?

When fired, does the engraved bullet readily take the rifling?

Most grateful... Smiley
  
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40_Rod
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Re: Pope False Muzzle.
Reply #11 - Sep 24th, 2017 at 8:35am
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The loading rod stops at the correct spot to place the base of the bullet at 1/16 of an inch from the end of the case. If you loose the rod or change to a different bullet Pope marked the barrel where the base of the bullet should come to.

40 Rod
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Pope False Muzzle.
Reply #12 - Sep 24th, 2017 at 2:41pm
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40_Rod wrote on Sep 24th, 2017 at 8:35am:
The loading rod stops at the correct spot to place the base of the bullet at 1/16 of an inch from the end of the case. If you loose the rod or change to a different bullet Pope marked the barrel where the base of the bullet should come to.

40 Rod

Where did he usually put a Mark? I never noticed one on my Stevens Pope.

My cases fit so well if I push them in too quickly, the compressed air will pop them back out a half to three quarters of an inch.  I was always nervous about that compression pushing the bullet forward.
  
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Tom_Trevor assra life no.71
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Re: Pope False Muzzle.
Reply #13 - Sep 24th, 2017 at 7:21pm
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Schuetzenmeister, Here are the Pope marks on my Pope Hi-wall. Note two marks or scratches as one is for thew 185 grain bullet and the other for the 200 grain. The rod has a bushing on the rod and if removed makes the rod short just enough for the 185 grain. Mark should be on right side even with the bullet base location. Hope this helps let us know if your barrel is so marked?
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Pope False Muzzle.
Reply #14 - Sep 24th, 2017 at 8:49pm
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Thank you Tom.  Yes, there is a mark there on the Stevens Pope barrel, Ser number in the 560s I believe. Very faint, but with the light just right it is obvious. 

A Schoyen mold came with the rifle.  No rod, so I had to make one up.
  
"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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