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Best twist for a Lyman 410663? (Read 13554 times)

alex henry two Participating Member Offline Posts: 25 Joined: Mar 22^nd, 2015	Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663? Reply #15 - Aug 27^th, 2017 at 6:08pm	Print Post
	Martini79, I shoot 1in18 40cal based on .348winchester case about 70g of 3f out to 900yds so far bullet length 1.180''grease groove. Vic.


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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4234 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663? Reply #16 - Aug 27^th, 2017 at 8:53pm	Print Post
	With the Lyman 410663 at 1,250 fps the gyroscopic stability factor for the twists you mentioned are: 13:1 twist Sg=3.22 15:1 twist Sg=2.42 16:1 twist Sg=2.13 17:1 twist Sg=1.88 18:1 twist Sg=1.68 For that bullet I would select the 16:1 twist which has a bit of overspin which will help it shoot better at longer distances. I have a .40-65 Shiloh Sharps 1884 with a 16:1 twist barrel and I shoot very tight groups out to 800 meters with a 410 grain Money bullet: Caliber 0.408 Inches Bullet Weight 410 Grains Bullet Length 1.44 Inches Barrel Twist 16 Inches/turn muzzle velocity 1250 fps Temperature 50 degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard) Pressure 29.92 inches of mercury (29.92 is standard) Sg = 1.86 I have a .40-60 Maynard CPA Stevens 44 1/2 with a 16:1 twist barrel and I shoot better groups out to 800 meters with a 410 grain Creedmore Paul Jones bullet: Caliber 0.408 Inches Bullet Weight 410 Grains Bullet Length 1.375 Inches Barrel Twist 16 Inches/turn muzzle velocity 1250 fps Temperature 50 degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard) Pressure 29.92 inches of mercury (29.92 is standard) Sg = 2.12 The Lyman 410663 would not shoot groups as tight as the Paul Jones Creedmore bullet or the Boomer Money bullet in either of my rifles.
	« Last Edit: Aug 27^th, 2017 at 9:36pm by Schuetzendave »

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beltfed Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1826 Location: Central Wi Joined: Dec 20^th, 2007	Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663? Reply #17 - Aug 27^th, 2017 at 9:59pm	Print Post
	Martini79, It will be interesting to learn of what twist you ended up with AND, please report back to us your accuracy results with the 410663 ---and other bullets you may try. I do agree with Schuetzendave: A tapered or two diameter bullet, from a quality mold cut by a custom moldmaker such as mentioned and such as my PiCS show, will be worthwhile. The taper or two diameter designs will enable you to seat the bullets out and get in MORE POWDER/Higher Velocity. But it must be cut to an appropriate length for your twist for best accuracy. Such as 1.325" for a 16 twist. beltfed/arnie


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martini79 Participating Member Offline Posts: 22 Joined: Aug 23^rd, 2016	Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663? Reply #18 - Aug 28^th, 2017 at 7:39pm	Print Post
	Again, thanks for the replies. Let me ask another question all barrels except the 1:13 twist need to be imported to Australia. Will using a 1:13 twist be detrimental to accuracy in the 200-500 yards range if using 410663 or similar?


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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4234 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663? Reply #19 - Aug 28^th, 2017 at 10:48pm	Print Post
	A 13:1 twist will be grossly overspinning the bullet to the extent it will affect accuracy. Normally you select a twist so the weight and length of your bullet will provide a Sg between 1.4 and 2.0. Less than 1.4 it does not spin the bullet enough and anything over 2.0 you are overspinning the bullet. Long range shooters may overspin a bullet to about 2.4 but the 13 twist will give you a Sg of 3.22 which is way too much of a spin.


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martini79 Participating Member Offline Posts: 22 Joined: Aug 23^rd, 2016	Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663? Reply #20 - Aug 28^th, 2017 at 11:01pm	Print Post
	That is what I suspected, but I wanted to check, just because it would be the easiest, cheapest and quickest barrel to get. In order to get anything else I will need to import. The advise from experience here seems to be a 1:15 or 1:16 twist, I am tempted to go for a 1:17, due to the fact that I can not see me using the rifle past 500 yards. I really want to get the most out of it at 200-300 yards! Is an SG of 1.7 a good stability factor for 200 yards?


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texasmac Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2158 Location: Central Texas Joined: Aug 16^th, 2004	Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663? Reply #21 - Aug 28^th, 2017 at 11:15pm	Print Post
	Schuetzendave wrote on Aug 27^th, 2017 at 8:53pm: The Lyman 410663 would not shoot groups as tight as the Paul Jones Creedmore bullet or the Boomer Money bullet in either of my rifles. I've had similar experiences with the Lyman Snover 410663 in a 16-twist, .409 groove dia. Browning BPCR. After extensive testing it will not shoot as well as a Paul Jones Creedmoor, BACO 409400M4 or 410401M3 Money bullets. But I was using a blow tube and don't believe it holds sufficient lube for the typical dry & hot summer condition found in central Texas. So it may work better when wiping between shots. Wayne
	« Last Edit: Aug 28^th, 2017 at 11:21pm by texasmac »
	NRA Life (Benefactor & President's Council) Member, TSRA Life Member, NSSF Member, Author & Publisher of the Browning BPCR book
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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4234 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663? Reply #22 - Aug 29^th, 2017 at 8:52am	Print Post
	An Sg of 1.7 will work great out to at least 500 Meters. Long distance shooters try to overspin their bullets to compendate for drag over long distances (1,000 yards) and look for a Sg just over 2.0.


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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2612 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663? Reply #23 - Aug 29^th, 2017 at 10:07am	Print Post
	beltfed wrote on Aug 27^th, 2017 at 9:59pm: Martini79, It will be interesting to learn of what twist you ended up with AND, please report back to us your accuracy results with the 410663 ---and other bullets you may try. I do agree with Schuetzendave: A tapered or two diameter bullet, from a quality mold cut by a custom moldmaker such as mentioned and such as my PiCS show, will be worthwhile. The taper or two diameter designs will enable you to seat the bullets out and get in MORE POWDER/Higher Velocity. But it must be cut to an appropriate length for your twist for best accuracy. Such as 1.325" for a 16 twist. beltfed/arnie I think that past 200 yards that is the ticket. The Buffalo Arms money bullets that I'm using for midrange + silhouette have three bore diameter driving bands and are 1.4" long. They also have mini-grooves for reduced drag. The BC is about 0.475 which is better than the .45 cal Creedmoor designs, and it's no problem to push them past 1300 fps to minimize vertical dispersion at distance. I have a faster twist .40-65 coming very soon from Shiloh and will try the 420gr version of this bullet. A well known fellow I shoot with sometimes uses this combo and it's worked quite well for him. Chris.


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martini79 Participating Member Offline Posts: 22 Joined: Aug 23^rd, 2016	Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663? Reply #24 - Aug 29^th, 2017 at 4:57pm	Print Post
	Thanks Joe what range were you shooting to?


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martini79 Participating Member Offline Posts: 22 Joined: Aug 23^rd, 2016	Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663? Reply #25 - Aug 29^th, 2017 at 6:47pm	Print Post
	Theoretically unstable till a 1:18 twist! But it worked fine out to 400 odd yards. What did you use for rams?


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7664 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663? Reply #26 - Aug 30^th, 2017 at 5:37pm	Print Post
	westerner wrote on Aug 30^th, 2017 at 5:32pm: Guess I should have read scientific ballistics books and stuff more. After the xray glasses caper, didn't believe everything I read. Hoping someday they figure out how to make those glasses work. Joe. Mine worked but, I wore them out in the first month You should have sent them back for a replacement pair!!! Frank

	ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
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calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3982 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663? Reply #27 - Aug 30^th, 2017 at 9:08pm	Print Post
	Mine worked fine, but the gals had 'em too- I couldn't stand them snickering at me when they looked, so I stayed indoors until they wore 'em out like Frank's.


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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4234 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663? Reply #28 - Aug 31^st, 2017 at 8:57am	Print Post
	Hoping someday they figure out how to make those glasses work. Seem to work great for the Homeland Security guys working at the airport.


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18070 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663? Reply #29 - Aug 31^st, 2017 at 9:44am	Print Post
	westerner wrote on Aug 30^th, 2017 at 5:45pm: I never thought of sending them back. I thought it was just a way to get a dollar from me. Wow, what have I missed? Nita Perez for one. Dang! Joe. Should have sent them the full $1.99 and got the good ones!

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