recently acquired a pristine win. hi-wall in 38-56 cal.
after trying to find brass for this forgotten cal. I decided to form my own from 45-70 cases. I bought the redding forming die, and have a rcbs full length resizing die, and in the process of forming some kind of brass to fire form.  This is a slow process, but it looks like the only way to get brass for this guy.
is there any one else out there that has any info on the 38/56 cal. reloading, ,shooting etc. I would appreciate it as i,am stumbling along with this bottle necked cartridge. thanks Duke

BACO 38-56 brass:

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thanks all for the great replies, any info is appreciated.
thats a good idea on the 40-65 forming die as a first step than the 38-56 forming die as a second step operation.
lot easier on the brass, and not such a drastic step down.
also thanks for your pet loads, i like the 9gr. of unique, sounds like a fun load.
this is my first black powder bottle neck cartridge to load for.
appreciate the info from baco on the win. brass ,not to bad for price either. i found some bertrand, i think that's how you spell it , but they wanted $60.00 for 20 rounds ,out of my price range.

By some bit of serendipity I found  several  forming and trim dies for the .40-60 Win on ebay.

The RCBS form die for the .40-65 that I found was no good for much of anything. It was designed to form the base of the .45-70 cases so they would eventually chamber when the rest of the case was properly sized. The case mouth was only formed down to .466.

However the RCBS .40-60 dies turned out to be just what I needed to form the .40-60.  
The .40-60 looks like a short version of the .40-65. If you set the .40-60 form dies higher you can approximate the .40-65 profile.
My ,40-60 form dies produce the following case mouth diameters
1. .40-60 Form 1 = .452
2. A second .40-60  Form 1 = .432 
3.  40-60 trim = .423

Don't waste your money on a Redding .40-65 trim die. It is the same internal size as the Redding .40-65 FL reloading die. You can buy a complete used Redding FL die set for about the same price as the REDDING trim die. 

Those dies get the .45-70 brass down to where it is really easy to form the .38-56 Win cases I am not sure why but it is easier to size the .45-70 down to .38-56 in one pass than it is to size the .40-65 in multiple passes.  The .40-65 cases have always been stinkers to form. For some reason .40-60 is also easier to form. 

I have die sets for a number of the 1886 Win rounds including the .33 Win and  the .38-56.
I found both of these have slightly smaller bases than some 45-70 cases.  You may run into  brass that will not chamber because the base is too large to fit your chamber.  The too large case heads will probably be WW brass (ironic huh?) The WW brass is .about .502 at the head.  Try RP and a few other brands if you run into large bases. The RP that I have runs about .500 on the base. Even this may be too large. You may have to turn or swage the bases a little smaller.

If you happen to have .44-40 or .38-40 dies they might be useful for forming intermediate steps.  You either need open top FL dies or trim dies. These are FL dies with large enough bores or threads in the top to let the longer formed .45-70 neck pass through. 

Trim dies are open on top and would work fine but it is unlikely that you would have those trim dies.




[quote author=7174737C7F777B717F681A0 link=1501963356/0#0 date=1501963356]recently acquired a pristine win. hi-wall in 38-56 cal.
after trying to find brass for this forgotten cal. I decided to form my own from 45-70 cases. I bought the redding forming die, and have a rcbs

Granded we are now dealing with forming 38-56 brass.
Bear with me re forming down to 40-65:
No. 1. When forming the 45-70 brass to 40-65,
First, the RP brass formed nicely.
I found WW cases liked to end up with wrinkles
in neck area. BUT, forming went well when I annealed
the WW brass about half way down from mouth. then just fine results which eliminated the case creasing.
BUT, and again I found the 40-65formed  WW brass case mouths were thicker, and FF brass still snug on my 0.410 bullets. Needed to go to 0.409.

Yes, we are now dealing with 38-56
You need to anneal the 45-70 brass halfway down.
Then (probably) go thru a 40-65 FL die, before going thru the 38-56 die.
As to the tight necks- remember when necking down, the case neck brass gets thicker.  YOu may need to neck turn.
beltfed/arnie

If you neck turn, I'd recommend turning the outside of the cases, unless you turn the inside plenty deep to allow varying bullet depths. Sometimes turning inside necks results in a ledge that stops the bullet from seating deep enough.

Been shooting a 38/56 for a long time,dont anneal the brass down the case or it will never stop stretching. First try starline 40/65 because the necks are thinner and are already half formed. Thats what works in my lever gun , in my CPA I use Starline 45/70 brass as the necks are thicker and I slipfit the bullets in them and use  BP.

First 38-56 i formed I annealed down the case and made it too soft ,it formed nice but would stretch for about 3 or 4 firings,total stretch was about .050 long in 3 trims, now I know that had to come from somewere, so before they seperated I started over and only anneal after I form them.