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Joe_S
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alloy question
Aug 2nd, 2017 at 9:47pm
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I am still recovering from what I believe is a zinc contamination. Starting to get some good bullets but am having a lot of rejects due to insufficient fill out in the bullet bands. I disposed of all suspect alloy, bought a new pot and new mold, still having insufficient fill out around the bands.  I am casting with Roto metals 30/1 or lead pipe and tin, 30/1 with the same results.  I assume that adding more tin would not fix the problem but it occurred to me that perhaps adding more tin, to say 25/1 or 20/1 might reduce the surface tension of the alloy and improve the fill out. 
Does anybody think that might work?
Thanks!
Joe S
  
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Joe_S
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Re: alloy question
Reply #1 - Aug 2nd, 2017 at 10:12pm
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The molds are Accurate Molds, I did clean the cavities with hot distilled water, alcohol, and I think I also used lacquer thinner  once also. Scrubbed the vent lines also. Not sure what else to do. 
Joe S
  
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John Boy
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Re: alloy question
Reply #2 - Aug 2nd, 2017 at 10:16pm
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I disposed of all suspect alloy, bought a new pot and new mold, still having insufficient fill out around the bands.

Joe, I will almost guarantee your casting tools are not the issue for insufficient fill out. Try this and report back -regardless of the alloy composition:
* Clean mold and fluxed pot melt
* Heat the mold and the pot melt to a constant temperature so that ...
* With the ladle spout in the sprue hole doing a 5 second pour - the sprue puddle frosts in 5 - 8 seconds
* Then cut the sprue plate and drop the bullet
Continue with a constant casting rhythm keeping that pot melt at a constant temperature so the sprue puddle frosts in the 5 - 8 second range
This will create bullets completely filled out with sharp edge bases.  When you weigh the bullets, the Bell Curve will be less than 1 grain if you cast correctly with a constant rhythm 
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) Ideal 375166
« Last Edit: Aug 2nd, 2017 at 10:43pm by »  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: alloy question
Reply #3 - Aug 2nd, 2017 at 10:22pm
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After you have done all of that, if you still have a problem, smoke the mold. Anything will work; wooden match, candle, butane lighter.......  Candles can be tricky.  Do not contaminate the with dripping wax!
  

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Joe_S
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Re: alloy question
Reply #4 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 6:37am
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Thanks for the help everyone. I have tried everything that has been recommended. When I get the mold temp up to the point where the sprue takes 5 seconds or more  to frost, I get small divots in the base (cavities in the sprue hole area-unless I let it cool for a while. 
smoking the mold did seem to help, but has not solved the problem. 
I am 64 yrs old, not sure I will live long enough to cast enough bullets for a  season! ( I have enough strategic reserve of good bullets to last about one or two years). I think the problem is in the mold.
Will keep trying.
Joe
  
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hepburnman
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Re: alloy question
Reply #5 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 7:41am
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Not sure you are having this problem but I have a Saeco mold that casts the #740, 410 gr bullet that if there is the slightest breeze (I use a fan to move fresh air past my face) on the mold I get incomplete fill-out on one side of the mold. In contrast I have a Paul Jones mold where he used the same mold blocks that Saeco uses, and which casts a larger 430 gr bullet, that is not affected by the same breeze.

Also, make sure the sprue cut off plate is not too tight pressing down on the top of the mold. his can have an effect on how well the corners of the base fill out.

Run the mold too at at least 750 degrees or somewhat hotter.
  
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KAF
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Re: alloy question
Reply #6 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 7:48am
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A new mold will contain oil/lubricants in the pores of the material it is made of. No matter what material the mold is made of this will happen.
It takes awhile for the contaminates to burn out, so to speak.

Clean your mold well then do it again using something like dawn dish soap and hot water, use a fine brass brush if need be, just do not over do.  A stiff toothbrush will work.

Rinse with hot water, clean inside drilled and tapped holes, clean the screws, the pins, everything.

IF a mold is clean, do not put more contaminates on it or in it.
When clean and alloy is running at a good temp along with good temp in the mold the wrinkles will be gone.

  
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beltfed
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Re: alloy question
Reply #7 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 11:38am
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I dissassemble and then soak a new mold overnight in mineral spirits.
then wipe it dry
then soak it for an hour or so in acetone.
then shake off/wipe off the acetone ( don't just let it dry)
NOw, I inspect the mold cavity with an eye loupe  for any wire edges. They can be gently removed with an Exacto knife.
Next, check for snug/but not sticky fit on the alignment pins.
Adjust carefully-gently drive pins in deeper- if any looseness.
Now adjust the sprue plate tightness so it is just snug enough to prevent it opening up "by gravity"   
Now warm it up to temp before starting casting.
Works for me for a relatively short casting breakin.
After warm-up/initial casting you may need to adjust the sprue plate tightness again- NOT tight, just snug enough....
ALSO, I do NOT oil or wd40 the mold between uses.
Molds go into a Good gasketed GI ammo can along with
several pieces of VCI rust inhibiting paper.
Ready to go next time out of the can
beltfed/arnie
  
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John Boy
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Re: alloy question
Reply #8 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 12:26pm
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When I get the mold temp up to the point where the sprue takes 5 seconds or more  to frost, I get small divots in the base (cavities in the sprue hole area-unless I let it cool for a while.
Joe, divots in the base are indicative that the pour is not filling the mold to the bottom of the plate.  Hold the ladle spout pressed in the sprue hole during the pour.  Next having to cool the mold indicates the melt is too hot.  After the puddle frosts, wait 15 seconds before cutting the plate ... Do you use a thermometer and cast at what temperature?  Also, are you casting with a bottom pour melting pot or dipping with a ladle?

Forgot to mention:  The sprue plate tightness should be adjusted so with the mold handles in hand - swing the mold and the plate should flip open
Here's a good read  on casting ... (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
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frnkeore
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Re: alloy question
Reply #9 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 3:01pm
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I don't remember, from the other thread, what your mold is made of. I've never had problems with a iron mold but, have fought aluminium and brass, a few times.

With alum molds, I found that NEI Mold Prep, usually sloved the problem. It's made of fine graphite, I think.

The most trouble that I had was with a NOE, 2 cav, brass mold. I was aniuos to see what the bullets measured so, I cast it w/o doing anything to it, not even taking the oil out of it, figuring to would burn out and be ok.

I threw hundreds of bullets back in the pot, with that mold. I put mold prep on it, boiled it, sprayed it with cleaning spray.

What I finally did, was start all over. Got the mold prep off with alcohol, I then used my regualar method. I use hot water, with dish soap with Boraxo added, then plain Boraxo. Dried it and cast. It was better, I then heat cycled it on the electric shove, 2 or 3 times and it finally started casting good bullets. I still get about 5 out of 100 that have wrinkles but, I figure that's good with a 2 cav.

As JB says, make sure the ladle spout contacts the sprue plate, when casting. You'll keep a better temp in side the mold that way and the pressure it provides, helps fill out.

Nothing more frustrating than not getting good bullets!!!

Frank

  

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JLouis
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Re: alloy question
Reply #10 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 4:39pm
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After you have cleaned it and if you have one just try taking a hand held propane tourch and burning out the impurities on each mould block half. Typicaly you will see them start sweating out and they are typicaly noticeable just continue to do so until all is gone. Just don't over do it and end up warping the mould so keep the flame moving as you go and rotate from one side to the other it typcialy does not take long to burn it all out and you should be good to go. I would not apply anything to the interior surface after being burned clean. You can eventually cast them out as well if you have the time and don't mind doing all that casting just for the self enjoyment of doing. This is the method I use I learned it from the one who thaught me how to make moulds and it has always worked well for me.

I wish you the best.
JLouis
« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2017 at 4:52pm by JLouis »  

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beltfed
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Re: alloy question
Reply #11 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 4:42pm
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Indeed,
keep the dipper spout on the sprue plate for a few "moments",but do not press hard. Let the dipper/lead's
own weight keep it onthe sprue plate.
This is just so you don't seal the sprue plate to the top of mold blocks thereby reducing venting
beltfed/arnie
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: alloy question
Reply #12 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 6:02pm
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The last mould I couldn't make a good bullet with turn out to be too air tight.  You might try an engraving tool to lightly deepen a few vent lines.  

Final cleaning by boiling in plain water for 15 minutes might help.
  

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John Boy
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Re: alloy question
Reply #13 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 6:04pm
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Joe - may work for you  but it works for me ...
* with the ladle spout on the sprue plate while pouring, tilt the spout just a tad (spout still in the sprue hole).  What you will see during the pour is the melt bubbling out on the side of the spout = escaping air in the mold = more melt fulling the blocks.  And remember to press the plate down when cutting the sprue = better base bottoms with a clean cut

Finally,  Wink I have cleaned my molds with a free sample of 
Micro -90 for close to 10 years now.  The sample is concentrate and you wash the molds with a 2% solution.  So it lasts a long time. I use distilled water from the dehumidifier
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When ask for the free sample - identify that you have a  gunsmith business.  They don't ship to just a Joe Blow

When you get all your casting fine tuned - how about a couple of bullet pictures
  
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