Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 4 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) cc johnson rifle (Read 26410 times)
fullchoke
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 19
Location: oregon
Joined: Apr 16th, 2017
cc johnson rifle
Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:18pm
Print Post  
Hello, I'm new to this site and have a few questions about this rifle that I recently bought. I sent an inquiry to JC Johnson about it and I have a few general questions I would like to post here. It is a Winchester High Wall with a heavy bull barrel that has M-BEE stamped on the barrel. The second line says CC Johnson in smaller letters. Is it correct to believe that the rifle is chambered for the Mashburn Bee?
The woodworking on the rifle is unique and I would not want to replace it, but would I devalue the rifle if I had it worked on to give it a better fit and finish? Right now woodwork doesn't come close to matching the metal work quality. I'm not sure yet what can be done. I bought this rifle because I liked the look of it and  want to keep it period correct. I'm new to collecting anything like this and I'm not sure how important originally is on a custom rifle from a renown gunsmith. Originality is important to me and I don't want to compromise it, but the woodwork is crude and I think it detracts from the rifle. What do you guys think?
I also would like to find out more about CC Johnson and the rifles he built. Were the rifles totally custom order or were they made up customized actions and then made to fit the buyer? I was thinking it would be interesting to see if there were other rifles made like this one.
Thanks for your thoughts and responses!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Redsetter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3468
Location: New York
Joined: Aug 6th, 2013
Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #1 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:14pm
Print Post  
fullchoke wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:18pm:
...the woodwork is crude and I think it detracts from the rifle.


Sounds more like some previous owner's do-it-yourself job, in which case replacing the wood constitutes no crime.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
scharfe
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


A good plan today beats
a perfect plan tomorrow.

Posts: 542
Location: ny / pa line
Joined: Dec 18th, 2006
Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #2 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:47pm
Print Post  
welcome. lots of info here, and great people too.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mike65
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 198
Joined: May 4th, 2004
Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #3 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 4:00pm
Print Post  
Welcome.

I think that you'll find with a few searches here on the forum that CC seldom, if ever, did any woodwork at all and it was farmed out to others.  CC concerned himself with the metal work only and did lots of re-line jobs.

Mike
  

We are seldom as smart as we think nor as dumb as others believe.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
cleanprone
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 40
Joined: Dec 17th, 2015
Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #4 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 4:32pm
Print Post  
CC Johnson rifles are not common but Ohio probably has more than most areas.  A friend has two, Lo-Wall and Hi-Wall,  beautifully stocked in classic style.  My Lo-Wall Hornet has 4-groove cut rifled barrel, very heavy most likely by Charlie Diller, and very accurate.  The rifle has straight grain walnut in varmint style, probably Fajen.  Metal work superb.  Wood is plain and well fitted.  I'm using a 2 inch 12X Unertl Ultra-Varmint, calibrated head and get a lot of interest when I get to the range.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16276
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #5 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 4:36pm
Print Post  
You'll never hurt any old gun by making amateurish wood fitting look better! If you can do so without replacing the stocks, you'll save money. But if you have to replace them, then it still wont hurt the value if they're poorly fitted. 
The real value in the gun you own is the barrel and action. If the wood was nicely fitted, and high quality, then I'd say making repairs need to be done carefully to keep the gun's history. But sounds like that's not the case here.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fullchoke
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 19
Location: oregon
Joined: Apr 16th, 2017
Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #6 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 6:29pm
Print Post  
Thanks guys for the welcome.
I have read online that the woodworking on CC Johnson rifles was noticeably inferior to the metal work. Maybe CC Johnson sold barreled actions and the stocking could be done by the customer. The metal work was prepared for the stock that is on it. I will try to get some pictures.

Thanks again
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16276
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #7 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 7:09pm
Print Post  
I had a CC Johnson High Wall in .22LR once, and the custom stocks were the nicest job I've ever owned on a custom single shot. Typical "varmint rifle" style of the 40's or 50's, but very high grade wood, and wonderful fleur de lis pattern, and finely checkered. I wish I'd never let it go, but I was transfixed on schuetzen style single shots, and it didn't fit my collection.
Unsure if CC Johnson did much stock work, but sure his nephew could answer that question.

What part of Oregon are you located? I'm in East Portland.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fullchoke
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 19
Location: oregon
Joined: Apr 16th, 2017
Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #8 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 7:29pm
Print Post  
Tualatin area
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FITZ-G
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 79
Joined: Jun 4th, 2015
Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #9 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 8:11pm
Print Post  
fullchoke, when CC Johnsons nephew showed up here announcing he had the Shop notes. He said what he needed was information stamped on the Barrel under the Forend. From this he could document year of change and caliber and some other matter that I do not recall at this time. I own two CC Jonson barreled
rifles, one a Borchardt in 22-3000 sleeved by him. I removed the sleeve and found it had been soldered into an original Sharps .45 caliber bore. It was or is bright and nearly perfect so we sleeved the Chamber back to .45 X 2 4/10" and it became a very good shooter. The other is also a 22-3000 but was a fresh barrel I have done nothing with yet. I am not sure but at some point I heard he had transferred his shop notes to the ASSRA archives. Worth asking the Archivist. He will generate copies of Data for a minimal price. HTH Regards,
FITZ-G. Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #10 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 9:47pm
Print Post  
fullchoke wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 6:29pm:
Thanks guys for the welcome.
I have read online that the woodworking on CC Johnson rifles was noticeably inferior to the metal work. Maybe CC Johnson sold barreled actions and the stocking could be done by the customer. The metal work was prepared for the stock that is on it. I will try to get some pictures.
Thanks again


Reaching back into memory of articles I've read about Johnson, I have the impression that he did not do any woodwork himself.  Either farmed it out or left it to the customer.   

Charles Landis in his book "Twenty Two Caliber Varmint Rifles" mentions that, in the heyday of the .22 Lovell, he was putting out over 200 barrel jobs a year, so I'm inclined to think that he would not have had time to do wood as well.
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
cleanprone
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 40
Joined: Dec 17th, 2015
Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #11 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 10:06pm
Print Post  
Nice article in ASSRA journal about ten years back re:  CC Johnson which states he did no wood work.  Not handy right now but will post date.  Believe grandson has shop notes and he follows this forum, he needs a work number from the rifle, mine is stamped on the bottom tang.  I believe the notes include date, work performed.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fullchoke
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 19
Location: oregon
Joined: Apr 16th, 2017
Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #12 - Jun 20th, 2017 at 12:33am
Print Post  
There is a number under the forearm. It includes numbers and letters. I sent that to JC Johnson. I was thinking it might be a date code of some sort. I don't see a serial # on the rifle. The number is normally on the lower tang on a High Wall, but that area was worked on and I don't see a complete number.
I'm glad the stock was not part of his work as I want that worked on or replaced.

Thanks
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16276
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #13 - Jun 20th, 2017 at 9:38am
Print Post  
fullchoke,
We have our OAC collector gun show this coming Sunday morning, so if you get out early you could bring it by the show? It's 7:00 a.m. to 11:30 a.m. 
I have a couple tables there every month, and will have a small Rolling Block display this Sunday. $3 entry, and free parking, so well worth the drive from Tualatin.
Directions can be found in the OAC link at the bottom of my posts.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schutzenbob
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Rheinisch-Westfälisc
hen Sprengstoff-Fabriken

Posts: 2057
Location: Nightingale, California
Joined: Oct 24th, 2005
Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #14 - Jun 20th, 2017 at 11:24am
Print Post  
C. C. Johnson from Halp's website;
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 4
Send TopicPrint