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JägerWilhelm
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Loading for Peabody 1870 Spanish
Jun 6th, 2017 at 8:49pm
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I picked up one of the German proofed Peabody 1870 Spanish which appears to be unfired, after I stripped it and cleaned up the cosmoline. I have some Bertram 43 Spanish brass, .439 370gr boolits from Buffalo Arms, and 5744 powder.

The only load I have found is for 25grs of 5744. I was going to start off with a lower load. My main question is whether I need to use a filler when I load the cartridge? I don't plan on crimping the round, but will use a seating die.

Any guidance would be appreciated, as this is a new endeavor for me.
  

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oneatatime
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Re: Loading for Peabody 1870 Spanish
Reply #1 - Jun 6th, 2017 at 9:15pm
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Willi, if you aren't going to shoot black you had better slug the barrel. Mine was .446 and it would never shoot the .439 bullets with smokeless, only with black where they could bump up. I had a 446110 HP that I sized .446 and they were fine with 28 grains of 4759 with no filler. I suppose you could paper patch the .439s with thin paper and get them to work but I'm leary of using any fillers. I also had an Argentine rolling block in 43 Spanish that was 446 and I had Bernie Rowles at Old West Bullet Molds make me a mold for a heavier bullet in 446.
  
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JägerWilhelm
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Re: Loading for Peabody 1870 Spanish
Reply #2 - Jun 6th, 2017 at 9:36pm
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Thanks. When you say  "it would never shoot with .439" I assume you mean accurately and not safely.

I also grabbed some .446 bullets in both 340 and 385, since I am going to start loading Mauser 43 rounds as well.

Yes, I should slug the barrel.
  

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oneatatime
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Re: Loading for Peabody 1870 Spanish
Reply #3 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 12:46am
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Yes, definitely safe to shoot but the target was also safe! You have to watch the 43 Mausers also. I have one that is .446 and another that is .439.
  
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40_Rod
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Re: Loading for Peabody 1870 Spanish
Reply #4 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 8:26am
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Do Not use filler or compress a load of 5744 this is a dangerous practice. Drop your load and let it remain loose.

40 Rod
  
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JägerWilhelm
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Re: Loading for Peabody 1870 Spanish
Reply #5 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 12:18pm
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Thanks gentlemen. I had no intention of compressing a smokeless load in these large casings, and while I had not found anything regarding using a filler with Spanish 43, I did for the Mauser 43 load. So, I just wanted to confirm.

I am new to the SA 19th Century black powder to smokeless transition, so I am proceeding cautiously.

I do plan on using BP for my Mauser 71.

I will slug the barrels, but a quick muzzle groove measurement yielded .438 on the Peabody, .443 on the 71, and .438 on the 71/84.
  

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Oldeyes
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Re: Loading for Peabody 1870 Spanish
Reply #6 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 8:25pm
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I'll be watching this thread because I have 3 Peabodies in 43 Spanish that I want to shoot someday.  I have tried a few smokeless loads with indifferent results, the groove diameters are large and the twist is slow; borrowing a friend's  bore micrometer for these three groove barrels I came up with .452 in a cut down Mass. militia rifle, .454 in another Mass. militia, and .457 in an as new German marked French purchase.... yikes!
   So, unless I receive further guidance I think that black powder may be the way to go.
   I am probably mangling the quote, but Mark Twain once said that "His face was as blank as the targets at a militia rifle match."  It would not surprise me to find he meant the rifles in 43 Spanish... NY state 50-70s shoot well  Smiley
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Loading for Peabody 1870 Spanish
Reply #7 - Jun 8th, 2017 at 9:02am
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For safe loads of smokeless in old large capacity cases (in my case 20 odd grains of 5744 in 45-70 cartridges) I did not want to use any kind of fillers.  So I followed Charlie Dells advice of using a light card or cork wad held just slightly above the surface of the powder---NOT down on it and NOT compressing it.
As a wad seater I used a very fine threaded metric bolt that was a slip fit in the case and two nuts to lock the depth.  I started by seating 3 cork wads very lightly on the powders surface, then locked the nuts in place removed the wads, and then used just one wad.  It was enough to hold the powder charge a proper position for consistent ignition while not compressing it.   
  However that method might not work well in most bottlenecked cases.  

  Another option is special cases.  At one time I had RMC turn a small batch of custom cases for a non-standard 11mm BN "mauser" Euro-stalking rifle.  The outside of the cases matched the chamber cast properly but the internal powder chamber of the case was straight-walled from the normally thin case mouth to the primer flash hole.  The cases are thick walled like everlasting cases.  This will reduce the capacity for BP loads of course; but for 5744 and 4759 type powders they work well. Its a simple break open stalking rifle so I have never tried using it in a match for target accuracy.
« Last Edit: Jun 8th, 2017 at 9:07am by QuestionableMaynard8130 »  

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JägerWilhelm
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Re: Loading for Peabody 1870 Spanish
Reply #8 - Jun 8th, 2017 at 1:26pm
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I'll report my progress as I move along. I just got in some Lee dies and was disappointed to discover the shell holder doesn't fit. Had I Googled that I would have discovered everyone else had that problem as well.....

I will start with a load of 20grs of 5744.

I only shot a Peabody in 41 Swiss twice, and was pleased with the result. So, I would be happy for this rifle to start off that well.
« Last Edit: Jun 8th, 2017 at 1:32pm by JägerWilhelm »  

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Re: Loading for Peabody 1870 Spanish
Reply #9 - Jul 5th, 2017 at 1:24pm
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Thought I would provide a quick status of what I did a few weeks ago.

Slugged the barrel and it measured .443". Tried the 370gr .439 bullet knowing what to expect, but wanted to see it myself. 1 hit out of 5 on paper at 50 yards. Keyhole. 4 hits out of 5 on paper at 25 yards. All keyholes. Casing would need to be resized after firing as .439 bullet just falls into casing. Bertram brass. Load was 20grs of 5744.

Next I thought I would try some Jamison brass with some .446" bullets, both the 340 and 385grs. Had to use a Mauser 43 ball expander to open up the casing, and only belled he mouth slightly. Had to apply a slight crimp to chamber the round. Both bullets shot about 12" high at 100yds, with 5-shot groups between 2.5" and 2.75". Will not have to resize the brass after firing as the .446 just barely starts to seat by hand. Also used a load of 20grs of 5744.

Next will be to try some different loads and chrono them. Will run the Bertram brass through the Mauser 43 ball expander. Disappointed with the high impact, but doubt reducing the load will get me near where I need to go.

  

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Re: Loading for Peabody 1870 Spanish
Reply #10 - Jul 5th, 2017 at 10:15pm
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Anymore I run a chamber cast on a new gun, a few years ago I came into the posseion of a Swiss 41 rimfire convereted to center fire. Slugged the bore came out with .410, ordered a mould, the slog dropped to the bottom of the case. Did a chamber cast it measured .430 at the breech. Come to find out these rifles have a long forceing cone throught. Bought the correct mould , now the rifle shoots just fine.
  
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