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Nathan Davis
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Reloading 38-55 with FF black powder
May 30th, 2017 at 11:43am
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I recently acquired a Winchester 1885. I reloaded 20 rounds with with a thin card over a Winchester large primer, 54 grains of ff black powder, 1/8 fiber wad, another thin card, and a Meister 245 grain bullet lubed with 1/4 beeswax, 1/4 parafin, and 1/2 mutton tallow. I reloaded another 20 rounds exactly the same, but without the thin card over a primer. They shot the same, regardless of whether or not I used the thin card over the primer.

Question #1: Is there any reason to include the thin card over the primer?

When pressing the bullet into my RCBS die, I seemed to find it difficult to keep the bullet centered in perfectly vertical position as I pressed it home. 

Question #2: Does anyone have any tips on how to align the bullet better?

In spite of using a 30" drop tube, I still couldn't put more than 54 grains of FF into the cartridge, and I still had to compress the powder quite a bit. Is  this normal?
  
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beltfed
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Re: Reloading 38-55 with FF black powder
Reply #1 - May 30th, 2017 at 12:01pm
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Try the same loading, but use FireFormed cases that have NOT
been resized. YOu should be able to finger seat the bullets.
beltfed/arnie
  
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Nathan Davis
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Re: Reloading 38-55 with FF black powder
Reply #2 - May 30th, 2017 at 12:17pm
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I see what you mean. That makes sense.
  
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beltfed
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Re: Reloading 38-55 with FF black powder
Reply #3 - May 30th, 2017 at 1:36pm
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Nathan,
Mixed thougths on primer wads.
yrs back I at first used no primer wads in my BP loading.
Got good accuracty.
Then I read some threads and it was said that by experimentation, adding the primer wad reduced the Extreme Spread of velocity in their loads. So i went that way.

Some, like myself "cut" paper(tgt paper) Into the primer 
pocket as I seat the Fed 150 Large Pistol primer for BP loads.
Others drop a paper wad into the case, down over the flash hole. I have done both ways.
Then again, several that are Very Good BP competitors say,
No Difference with or w/o primer wads.  So they don't use them.
Try w and w/o and see what you want to do.
beltfed/arnie
  
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Nathan Davis
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Re: Reloading 38-55 with FF black powder
Reply #4 - May 30th, 2017 at 2:57pm
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Any thoughts on the pro's and con's of using the 1/8" thick fiber wad and paper card on top of the FF powder? 

I was surprised at how much I had to compress the powder with the bullet when seating it. When I got ready to seat the bullet, it sat on top of the case, and that made it difficult to keep the bullet vertically centered as I made the compression stroke. But if I omit the wad and card, I could seat the bullet directly on top of the powder, slightly inside the case. If the bullet seats lower in the case even before compression, maybe it will tend to be more vertically centered as I make the compression stroke on the reloader. So, is there any reason why I need the wad and card on top of the powder?
  
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gunlaker
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Re: Reloading 38-55 with FF black powder
Reply #5 - May 30th, 2017 at 3:46pm
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Nathan you will be way ahead if you buy a compression plug for your exander die and use this to compress the powder rather than your bullet.

Chris.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Reloading 38-55 with FF black powder
Reply #6 - May 30th, 2017 at 4:20pm
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And a .060 overpowder wad is plenty and will give you room for more powder to boot.
  
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Quarter_Bore
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Re: Reloading 38-55 with FF black powder
Reply #7 - May 30th, 2017 at 4:41pm
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If you find that you must use sized cases to load. Make a new expander for your die. Make it .002 bigger then the bullet you intend to use. After running the expander through you should use another die to bell the case mouth a little. Now you will find that the bullets seat with just a little tension. They also shoot a lot better-In my opinion. Smiley
  
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Nathan Davis
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Re: Reloading 38-55 with FF black powder
Reply #8 - May 30th, 2017 at 8:50pm
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This all makes good sense to me. I'm anxious to try some new loads again.
  
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Re: Reloading 38-55 with FF black powder
Reply #9 - Jun 4th, 2017 at 8:01am
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And, 54gr of 2F powder (which powder?) is way too much powder in a 38-55. That "55" may be the nominal powder load from days of yore, but the 38-55 is much happier with 44-48gr of 2F. Plus, it will likely shoot better with 2F Swiss or 2F Olde Eynsford than 2F Goex. There is a reason Swiss costs more - it shoots better.
As stated above, use either a single 0.030" or 0.060" wad and skip the primer wads for now. Once you get a good load that shoots consistently, then fine tune by playing with primer wads.
Also, the advice on shooting fire-formed cases is good. Don't work your brass.
Same with the compression plug in a Lee loading die. Track of the Wolf has them for ~$20.
Good luck. Is a great round that should serve you well.
  
Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
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Leo1885
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Re: Reloading 38-55 with FF black powder
Reply #10 - Jun 4th, 2017 at 11:43am
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I use 46 grains of Swiss 3F under a 321 grain bullet with CCI large pistol primer and .030 over powder wad. I've tried primer wads and they don't help. I have to compress the powder about .20" in order to seat the bullet (by hand) deep enough for it to chamber. I use a powder compression plug, and a .379" diameter neck expander.
  
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Re: Reloading 38-55 with FF black powder
Reply #11 - Jun 4th, 2017 at 1:47pm
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From memory my 38/55 BP Load was 43 hrs 2 F 300 gr bullet. Old ballon head cases held more, perhaps 55 gr. Modern solid head case takes up powder space about 43-45 is all you will get in most loads . 

I used to compress, then went to drop tubes.  Then throw the charge tap the case with a brass rod to settle the powder .  Tapping can be done at the shooting bench other methods can work at the range but not as easy as tapping. . I doubt if one method is better than the other. What's important is do it the same way every shot.

All I put in the case is powder and a bullet no wads of any kind except, breech seating need over powder wad to keep from spilling powder. 

Others may do it different 

Boats
  
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