Just picked up a pretty nifty 3 barreled Pope Ballard set in Denver. The owner's name on the case is "L G Pridy" and he was a member of the Denver Rifle Club US top scoring team that year. Arms and the Man lists him, and the team's winning score as 9936. His scores show in the 198.3 to 200 point ranges.
Wondering if anyone can add any info on L G Pridy, or the 1919 Denver, Co. rifle team?

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Great set, Did you talk to John Dutcher at the show about him ? if anyone would know he would be the one.

Tom_Trevor assra life no.71 wrote on May 22^nd, 2017 at 4:22pm:


Yes Tom I did. John is a real detective and said he'd heard someone bought this set, and when I told him it was me he asked to come and look at it. He said he didn't recognize the name, but added he doesn't know every Denver City Gun Club name. He is going to send me whatever info he can find in his records, but said it may be little or none.
It appears from numerous "Arms and the Man" articles I found that Pridy was quite possibly the best shooter on the DCGC team. His scores were always listed at the top. I love provenance and a good hunt, so hope to find more!

scharfe wrote on May 22^nd, 2017 at 6:48pm:


No, all three barrels have the same knurled/threaded locking collar, and the receiver and barrels have a matching fine thread. The receiver has an adapter to avoid altering the Ballard receiver threads. The inside is similar to a Morris taper like a lathe or drill press uses, with a "key" to index each barrel upright. The fit is amazing, and even with the knurled collar loose, the barrel has no movement in the action. The collar is equipped with a hole, and a spanner wrench accompanies the set to tighten or loosen the collar.
This gun, with all three barrels is listed in Warren Greatbatch's book, "HM POPE HARTFORD 1887-1901" page 200. Notes say "it is not clear from the description how this arrangement worked?" I can tell you it works very well, and took a master tool an die maker to engineer it!

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Nice set, can't wait to see a side view assembled to see what the forearms look like. Here is a Denver Medal (1893) won by a John Dean.

Very nice rifle.  It possess some questions. Looking at the bottom photo I would say the top barrel with the butt stock was a 22 gallery set.  The next barrel down is the center fire that goes with the re-depriming tool and lube pump.  The bottom barrel looks like the offhand 22 barrel.
Now my questions. Is there a single trigger plate for gallery shooting?  Is the c.f. barrel false-muzzled and did you get the mold?
Det

Leonard George Pridy (1883-1940) was a barber in a hotel in Denver.  In 1918, he was employed by William R. Dashler.

He married Evelina J Hedenskog in Denver in 1910. They do not appear to have had any children.  For many years, they lived at 725 25th Street in Denver.

Pridy died of TB in 1940. 

It must have taken a lot of haircuts to pay for that set.  As a barber in a downtown hotel, perhaps he had additional sources of income.

Vall, Very, very nice set. Fascinating method to change barrels. Superb machining.
Self locking tapers like that usually have to be bumped pretty firmly to remove. Wonder how it is done.
Chuck

waterman wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 3:08am:



Thank you so much Waterman! Terrific info! It is puzzling that a barber could afford such a set, and fitted case with his name on it?

Joe Do... wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 6:48am:


It was one of the best so far Joe! I picked up two other neat Ballard rifles, and a pair of Rolling Block Sporting rifles that Ed Curtis had for sale.

Val
I forgot to mention at Denver, if you have problems forming brass for the 28 Pope I have a chamber reamer and sizing die for a 30-30 straight taper to 28 cal.  It would likely be very similar to your Pope.

Congrats on the find!  Wonderful piece of history!  I wish I would have been able to make it to the show and shoot the stuff with you, oh well see you next year.  Perhaps  I can talk Jon into a roadtrip up to the OCA show, who knows!

Btw Vall, magnet seems strong as ever.....you do a great job of being in the right place at the right time.....reminds me of a quote....appropriately modified...

Texas Jack: Where's Vall..? 

Doc Holliday: Down by the creek, walking on water.

Chuckster wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 11:35am:


Doing some more searching today and found additional info.
HM Pope patented this takedown system in 1888, but I have only seen it once before. In 1895 John Krieger also patented a similar system, and I found both patents to be similar in design, yet the US Patent office issued patent numbers to both HM Pope and JM Krieger.
There were some folks who looked at the set in Denver and thought it was something modern added at a later date. But the patents date to before the outfit was built, and look like they've been there forever, so pretty sure those guessing were guessing wrong.

I think everyone was guessing it was later too Chuck! Amazing that he was in his mid 20's when he was granted that patent. Not many people that young had such a creative mind!

The real question is how he made the machine cut for the lug on the threaded portion of the barrel.
The threaded portion of the barrel must be a separate piece, maybe soldered in place.
All together, an ingenious design.
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Chuck

frnkeore wrote on May 30^th, 2017 at 11:00am:


Frank, you would really enjoy the August two day show! It's 4x as big as our monthly show, with a lot of out of state antique arms vendors! 

JLouis wrote on Jun 11^th, 2017 at 5:22pm:


Yes John. Claude Roderick's notes from back in 1975 come from a letter Ed  Buessler of Spring Grove, Ill. wrote to Roderick describing the set, and the Pope .28 caliber barrel. He sates, "The Pope is a .28 on a blown out .25-35. This is not a cartridge configuration that appears anywhere else in the database and it's origin was unknown to Buessler." 
Roderick goes on to explain the unique Pope barrel that uses a Pope bullet starter, without a false muzzle. The bullet is seated directly into the bore without a false muzzle. It would seem the .28-35SS that you fellas are shooting is a direct descendant of this old Pope barreled rifle! Sounds pretty traditional.

Here's a picture of the chamber cast, and one piece of fired brass that came with the Pope Ballard, John. You might just make out the index mark on the edge of the rim on that case. Also the case was built from a .30-30 R-P case necked down. 
Unfortunately no tools for this barrel to form cases. The other two barrels came with old Winchester 1882 and 1884 tools for the .32-40 and .22WCF.

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Still chasing provenance on the Pope Ballard 3 barrel set. I have Pope's patent drawings, and patent application for this takedown system. I also have a good friend who is an engineer and machinist, and he dissected the takedown system to see how it worked, and what thread(s) it used. He determined the tapered tang moved .036" as the threads are either tightened or loosened to remove the barrel. This gradual movement unseats the barrel when loosened to allow it to slide freely from the receiver.
I also have gathered much more info on Leonard George Priday of Denver, Co. and his time with this set. LG Priday was a member of the 1919 Denver Rifle Club team that set the new world record for high team score in 1919. The team's world record was used in Remington ads that year to promote their ammunition. The score was 9956 out of a possible 10,000 points. Not sure if this record was ever beaten?
Still trying to find info on the last owner, who had this set for over 40 years. I know his first name was Walter, and possibly last name was Stern. He retired after 40 years as a Cal Poly professor at the Sam Luis Obispo, Ca. campus. Haven't been able to find out anything on a Walter Stern from that area, or any relationship to Cal Poly Engineering?
I have come up with some more bits and pieces that went with the gun, but nothing to add provenance to it.

Walter Stern was born in Germany in January 1928.  He became a naturalized citizen in 1985.  He lived in CA & WA, listed in several major cities but without any dates, probably 1980-2000.   

Stern would have been 17 when the war ended.  Probably he was some sort of low-ranking conscript.  As a guess, undergraduate & post-graduate work in some sort of engineering in West Germany, came to US as a visiting professor.  Never returned to Germany.  I have only begun to dig into Herr Dr. Stern.

waterman wrote on Aug 4^th, 2017 at 1:35am:


Thanks for that info! Way more than I could find!

jhm wrote on Aug 4^th, 2017 at 3:38pm:


Thanks! Yes, that is our annual get together fun shoot. We call it the Happenz, and the video was made at the 7th get together. My friend Wind (who started the Happenz) asked if I'd mind setting up a Ballard display, so I brought some of my Ballard schuetzen rifles. 
This is always a fun event, and I enjoy answering questions on schuetzen rifles to whoever is willing to hear me drone on about them. Another friend videos all the things that go on at each Happenz, and does an outstanding job of documenting each year's events.
We have a group of about 15-20 guys who show each year, but always happy to see new faces and get them on the dingers at various ranges! All cast bullet shooting, but the type of gun doesn't matter. Getting more single shots these days, but used to be more lever guns.
I took one of my Ballard rifles in .32 Long a couple years ago, and had it hitting the 450 yd. dinger with some helpful spotting and coaching from the fellas!

JLouis wrote on Aug 4^th, 2017 at 5:02pm:


We only have a couple rules John. Be safe, and use cast bullets. The reason vintage optics aren't mor epopular is most mounts run out of elevation long before your gun can get past 300 yds. 
I did take some shots with my old guns that have old scopes, but I was playing around aiming at brush, or sticks above the targets to see if I could hit. The field of view is another issue, so each shot aimed has to find the target first, then try to move up and over to account for bullet drop and wind drift. Just much easier to do the elevation with a long range vernier, and then estimate the wind drift and hold off.
The most popular sight I see used is the MVA 107 vernier tang sight. I'd guess I'm one of the few using original vintage tang sights.

Thanks for the reply and the info on your meet. Wish we had something like that here(Georgia)but if it isn't a "black gun" seems most folks are not interested. Looking at the videos it looks like a blast especially the expressions on peoples faces when they have a hit..... We did have a buffalo match at my club but it kinda went away for lack of interest. Again keep us posted.

jhm wrote on Aug 4^th, 2017 at 7:06pm:


We've had guys come from the East Coast to shoot. One fried is from South Carolina and coms every year. He has his guns and ammo shipped out, and then rents a U Haul van and sleeps in it each night. A couple guys from New Jersey last year who came out, and a couple more from Texas. More people show up from far away than from within 500 miles! I'm one of the closer ones, as it's an 8 hour drive for me.
Lots of fun if you ever get the itch to travel and make it out some time! You sure wont regret it! But you'll likely put on 10 lbs. the way we cook for each other!

Vall's Scheutzen Ballard display was breathtaking, and very cool to hear the depth of knowledge that Vall has. His passion really comes out when he's talking about Ballards.

And I did put on 5 pounds this year at Happenz, even with trying to eat lightly.

marlinguy wrote on Aug 15^th, 2017 at 10:48am:



A monumental day for me today! The two binders of Walter Stier's work came today! (20 lbs. worth!) Had little certain knowledge of what might be in the two volumes, and didn't want to get my hopes up and be disappointed. But it seems whatever hopes I had were much lower than what I discovered upon opening his binders!
There's a lot here to be discovered, and I'll be weeks absorbing most of it, and some of it I'll never understand! Walter being an engineer, had an engineer's mind working when he worked up his loads. The ballistic tables and math are over the top, and just amaze me that someone took so much interest and spent so much time calculating and drawing graphs, and such for every caliber he had!
Another discovery that wasn't a surprise, is Walt was an owner of a fair number of guns! I found data for probably a dozen calibers or more, and both rifle and pistol calibers! In the larger binder I also found numerous receipts for guns dating from the 1960's up to 1980's. Some used, and some new, like a C Sharps 1874 in .45-70 purchased for @$540 new. And it appears Walter also had a Ballard in .40-90 Ballard, as he did load data for it also, with BP and Pyrodex!
That same larger binder contains a huge assortment of catalogs, articles, and computer data he worked up. It also contains original letters from names like Charles Huntington, son of Fred Huntington when Fred was owner of RCBS. Letters from others also, and copies of letters he sent out to well known gun writers.
Going to have to try and figure some of this stuff out, as the math might require a consultation with another engineer! Walter did love his ballistics, and calculated bullet's flight, recoil, and other things for every caliber he shot!!

oneatatime wrote on Aug 28^th, 2017 at 5:49pm:


Thanks Chauncey! I also found a gun inventory sheet in one of the two binders with about 30 guns listed. Top of the sheet is the Pope set. Lower down is a '66 Henry in .44 Rimfire. A couple drillings, double rifles, a Westley Richards SxS, some old Colt SAA.