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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Tin and bullet size
Apr 23rd, 2017 at 9:00am
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I'm working with a new rifle project and new experimental cartridge  (26 cal using 25-35 parent cases) for offhand shooting.   I also have a new custom 2-cavity mould for the long heavy 26 cal bullet i ordered off a "group-buy" a few years ago.  I have been working on this rifle for a number of years and finding and squirreling away parts.  and its finally coming together.

  However I have run into a very small (literally) problem. When fire-forming the cases I find that the neck is just a very slight bit bigger than the bullet base. Its just a smidge bigger than a slip fit.   I have not dug out (relocated) some of my expanding ball gauges to measure the exact inner case neck diameter accurately yet but its really slight.

   I could order a die to size the brass down slightly but I'really don't want to always be resizing case-necks and working them too much.

   I might be able to send the mold somewhere and have the base band slightly enlarged----and/or have a stop ring added to the design.
   
  I have heard of "bump" dies that if I understand it---might be able to fatten up the base band a bit.   
I even read here about dropping them through a tube to "bump" the base out-----but that seems like a lot of uncontrollable variable to add---It might work on a big-bore BP bullet but doesn't sound real reliable for a smaller bore with Smokeless powder.

The other thing I think I have I have heard or read is that adding more tin to the alloy makes a slightly larger and slightly harder bullet. I have been shooting "woody-alloy"   25/1 as i recall. and I have a bunch of 50/50 solder in wire and bars I inherited from my plumber dad's work truck when he died that I could use to temper the all with.

Can some one confirm or deny my recollection as being accurate?  It would certainly be a quicker fix.
  

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ireload2
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Re: Tin and bullet size
Reply #1 - Apr 23rd, 2017 at 10:09am
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There is a little bit of data on the Los Angeles Silhouette Club site.
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Look for the following data. It will be in table form that is easier to read.

Both tin and lead shrink a lot so adding more tin would require a lot of tin to make much difference. Adding antimony reduces shrinkage a good bit but will probably make the bullets too hard.


Alloy shrinkage of cast bullets
 
       

Composition, %
     

Brinell
     

Shrinkage

Type Metal
     

Tin
     Antimony      Lead      Hardness      Linear, %
                                    
Linotype      4      12      84      18      .65
Monotype      9      19      72      26      .65
Lead      --      --      100      5      1.13
Tin      100      --      --      7      .90
Antimony      --      100      --      50      .47
As an example: the solidification of a nominally .357" diameter bullet cast of Linotype could be expected from the above table to be .0065 X .357" = .0025".  In a soft alloy of lead and tin, .01 X .357" = .0035".
Shrinkage - Bullet Diameter, Inches
Alloy      .308      .357      .452
Linotype      .002      .0025      .003
Lyman # 2      .0025      .0025      .0035
Soft Lead      .0035      .004      .005
From the above two tables it can be seen that the softer the alloy and the larger diameter the bullet that more shrinkage will occur.
  
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calledflyer
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Re: Tin and bullet size
Reply #2 - Apr 23rd, 2017 at 1:17pm
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Myself, I'd add a little wheelweight or similar for the antimony. Never bothered me in small amounts. Most rifles, anyhow.
On the other hand, if you'd like to avoid that like so many seem to do, I don't think the small amount of necking you seem to need is a worry. I think that cases will last a long, long time if you only squeeze 'em a thou or two.
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Tin and bullet size
Reply #3 - Apr 23rd, 2017 at 2:59pm
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thats sorts what I thought,    but ordering custom dies for neck sizing adds another time/cost factor. I thought tinkering with the alloy might avoid. I don't want to harden the alloy too much and I can pretty well control and keep track of the alloy by using the 50/50 solder

I have 260 rem dies but the case next is too short for the 26-35 case.    Oh well, the journey is half the fun---so they say.
  

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calledflyer
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Re: Tin and bullet size
Reply #4 - Apr 23rd, 2017 at 3:24pm
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For what it's worth I often use an alloy I make up that's around half wheelweight and half soft lead. I do add a goodly amount of tin from solder bars to aid mold fillout. I never tested it, but I doubt the air cooled alloy is more than about 10bhn. It does cast about a thou or a little more larger than the mold in 20:1 lead/tin. I'm fortunate in having a rifle that seems to like the stuff either way.
I also shoot five cases fixed every time I head out for foulers. The five cases have been sized about two thou to grip the bullet. I just checked and they are on the 38th cycle now. No trouble with the small amount of sizing. This after having been reformed from .32 spl. into .32-40. 
It's worth a try since you'd only need to mix a small amount to test- or get it from a pal. Hope ya get 'er shootin' soon.
  
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craigd
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Re: Tin and bullet size
Reply #5 - Apr 23rd, 2017 at 4:32pm
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My thought would be that if the neck fire formed with that little clearance between chamber and loaded round, there might not be much wiggle room with case prep and fouling if a bullet filled that space. It seems like a very minimal bit of neck sizing, to worry about over working brass.

If it were me, I'd hold a fired case in a chuckable shell holder and run it, non spinning, into a hole in some scrap steel plate, maybe 3/8" is plenty thick. I've drilled the closest under sized hole I could, and then slowly increased the hole size with a slotted rod and short strip of decent sand paper. Leave good clearance, start the paper in the hole, low speed in a drill press, work it up and down. Check the progress with a case and bullet, it's not necessary to use advanced measuring techniques.  Minimal time and cost, and if it doesn't work you can still fall back on the special ordered die.

A little starter bevel can be put on as needed. I don't think it's necessary to harden the plate, and use good alignment techniques. I've done this a few times for standard cartridges that are fire formed to chambers that heavily work the brass with standard dies. If I had an off the shelf neck bushing for any other die that would clear a smaller case, I would just use that. Only thoughts, hope the project comes together just right.
  
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ireload2
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Re: Tin and bullet size
Reply #6 - Apr 25th, 2017 at 10:04am
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If a special order die is considered just buy an oversize neck bushing die and the correct bushing for your neck.  A 30-30 neck bushing die should do to hold the bushing. Your bushing will be about .02 larger than your bullet or about .284.
  
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John Boy
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Re: Tin and bullet size
Reply #7 - Apr 25th, 2017 at 11:15am
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TOTW Expander Plugs (3 bucks) and the Lee Die .  Turn the plug down to the size needed 
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