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Dales
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Case collapse and powder type
Apr 11th, 2017 at 4:38pm
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Out test firing 25-21 today , started with Enforcer (had been working great in my 32 RKS and 25-20 Win)
case started collapsing at the first shot . Tried different cases and annealing cases, different wad location and seating dept. no joy.
About out of ideas ; I had picked up some H108 last fall so I gave it a try , no more collapse no matter case or wad location.

Has anyone else found powder selection to have effect on case collapse ?
Are there any powders more prone to causing collapse ?

Dales
  
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JLouis
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Re: Case collapse and powder type
Reply #1 - Apr 11th, 2017 at 6:02pm
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Dales the fellow I bought my 25-21 from was loosing just about a case a shot. The mouth of the cases were folding and completly destroying the cases. I changed the seating depth to where the bullet engraves completly through the baseband plus a tad more and I have not lost a single case since I made that simple change. I bought the rifle for my youngest grand daughter to shoot and she has well over 200 shots on just that one case. I personaly have not shot it much other than to get a load developed for here and the cases I have are both Bertram and Rocky Mountain. I prefer the Bertram having shot both during load development and I also did not loose a single case while using either of the two choices. She has shot half inch groups at 100yds. on more than one occasion while still getting used to the rifle and learning how to breech seat on her own. The 100yd. load is 8.7grs. of 300MP and Wolf small rifle match primers. The barrel is a 10 twist Douglas and the action is a Mos and it was Davids personal rifle. In speaking with David if memory serves me right he liked 9.2grs. of 4759 but its been so long now I forgot what primers he was using. He said it would shoot 3/8 inch groups at a 100yds. so I know I was getting close with the 300MP and the Wolf Match primers. The bullet being used is the 120gr. Mos and I have never tried the 4759 or any other powder to date but I did go through all of the typical variety of primers including the match grade Fed. and CCI.

I hope this somehow might be helpful.
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rgchristensen
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Re: Case collapse and powder type
Reply #2 - Apr 11th, 2017 at 6:04pm
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     Collapsing case necks are caused by reflection of a pressure wave from the bullet base.  This is the same phenomenon that can cause rings in bbls when wads are used.    When the HV gases decelerate against the base of the bullet, a region of high pressure is created.   This reflects back from the base of the bullet, and the case neck (having relaxed) allows some of the gas to flow around the outside of it.  When the high pressure wave passes on down the inside of the case, the trapped gases on the outside of the case expand, causing the neck to collapse.
      This can be prevented by not seating wads directly on the powder, but forward a little ways.   Or by using no wads at all, or by flaring the case neck a little, so that it drags on the chamber a bit as it enters.

CHRIS
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JLouis
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Re: Case collapse and powder type
Reply #3 - Apr 11th, 2017 at 6:43pm
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Dales I should have added that I do not use any wads the case has enough volumne that I don't have to worry about spilling powder into the chamber. 

JLouis
  

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P1
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Re: Case collapse and powder type
Reply #4 - Apr 12th, 2017 at 6:40am
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Hi Dale
I have had this with a chamber that is large. Make sure of the neck fit in the chamber, possibly flare the mouth.   
Sorry I can't comment on powder type being the cause. 

SG
  
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40_Rod
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Re: Case collapse and powder type
Reply #5 - Apr 12th, 2017 at 9:15am
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Dale you can do one of two things:
First bell the case mouth so when you put the cartridge in you feel the mouth scrape in.
The second thing is drop your load, put a cork wad at the case mouth and tip the case so that the powder is at the mouth. You may have to up your charge a tad to get back up to the proper velocity but this works.

40 Rod
  
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Dellet
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Re: Case collapse and powder type
Reply #6 - May 22nd, 2017 at 9:06am
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Powder being the cause of the collapse, is not as worrisome as powder being the solution.

H-108 is generally considered closer to Accurate #9, hotter than Enforcer. It sounds like you were probably solving the loose neck/chamber issue with increased chamber pressure. Forcing the brass to expand more creating a tighter seal.

Comparing measurements of fired cases would most likely confirm that, if you have any fired from those shot with Enforcer that did not collapse.
  
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