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HALO68
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Win. 1885 Rifle
Mar 16th, 2017 at 11:27am
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Hi everyone, I am new to the site, My screen name is Halo68. I need some info on a Win. 1885 single shot rifle, The rifle i have is chambered for the .22 WCF, I can't find ammo for it and was thinking of having a new barrel put on it, can i have a .22rimfire barrel put on it. The rifle action is very tight and the rifling is very good. I do not know anything about these rifles as they were left to me. The other two i have 32.20 and 38.55. I can get ammo for those.   
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            Waltjr.
             Halo68
  
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broken_arrow
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Re: Win. 1885 Rifle
Reply #1 - Mar 16th, 2017 at 11:49am
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Welcome to the forum Halo68.
The experts will be along shorty.
But, I'm sure that the general consensus will be NOT to change that rifle.
It looks like a nice original piece that should stay together.
Stay tuned,
Dave
  

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Every Mighty Oak Was Once A Little Nut That Held Its Ground
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frnkeore
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Re: Win. 1885 Rifle
Reply #2 - Mar 16th, 2017 at 11:49am
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If your a re-loader, your 1885 Winchester Low Wall, can be shot but, it will take some doing.

The cases are very close to a 22 Hornet. They are available. A bullet mold can be obtained here:

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Pick a 226 or 228 design of 45 gr or less. Then dies and your all set.

You can use 22 Hornet loading data, plus 1/2 gr, because the barrel, inside diameter is larger.

That's the best and cheapest way out but, I don't think you would have a problem trading you CF breech block for a RF one and rebarrel.

Frank
  

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jy3855
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Re: Win. 1885 Rifle
Reply #3 - Mar 16th, 2017 at 11:53am
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Walt,

First off, let me say that that is a nice rifle - you are a lucky guy to have had three 1885s passed on to you. If that 22 WCF was mine, I wouldn't change it, but set myself up to load for it.

There have been several threads about the 22 WCF here on the board. I don't remember all of the particulars, but if you search them out, they'll fill you in on the cartridge.

I may mangle this info, but someone will undoubtedly come along to give you the straight scoop.

I think that rifles marked 22 WCF have actually been chambered for one or the other of 2 different cartridges. Originally, rifles marked 22 WCF were chambered for a cartridge (22 Single Shot?) somewhat similar to the 22 Hornet, but with a longer case with a straight tapered case rather than the bottle necked Hornet.

Later on, some rifles may have been chambered for the 22 Hornet and marked 22 WCF.

You might see if a Hornet case will fit in your chamber, or give a try casting the chamber with Cerrosafe to see what the chamber looks like.

I believe that you can probably still get brass for the 22 SS, though it might be pricy.  22 Hornet brass is much easier to get a hold of.

Converting your rifle to 22 rimfire would entail either relining the barrel  or setting the barrel back to allow the large chamber to be cut off.  Either one would be a shame with a nice rifle like yours with a good bore. The breech block would also have to be converted to rimfire by filling the CF firing pin tunnel and drilling a new, offset firing pin hole in the block.

Ideally, you might go to the trouble of determining which chamber you have and setting yourself up to reload cast bullet cartridges for that rifle. This should also be the least expensive route for you to take, even considering the cost of getting 22 SS brass if that is what your rifle is chambered for.

P.S. I see two helpful folks posted while I was typing and beat me to it.
« Last Edit: Mar 16th, 2017 at 11:58am by jy3855 »  
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frnkeore
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Re: Win. 1885 Rifle
Reply #4 - Mar 16th, 2017 at 12:00pm
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Here is a re-sized picture for you:
  

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Re: Win. 1885 Rifle
Reply #5 - Mar 16th, 2017 at 12:21pm
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Buffalo Arms has brass for about a buck a piece.
  
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Re: Win. 1885 Rifle
Reply #6 - Mar 16th, 2017 at 2:00pm
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I am going through this too.  I would not recommend re-chambering it for a hornet as Hornets are .224, some old ones were .223, where the 22wcf shoots a .228 bullet, specifically, Ideal 228151, 45 gr.  22636, -37, -38 may work, also228367-53, also 22834, and -35 may also work as they cast about .228.  I don't know about the twist rate, so the heavier longer bullets may not stabilize.  I cast some yesterday in my "new" 22636-60 and it dropped at .228, some bands .227.

Hornet brass should work if reworked, I would start at a smaller load as the theory about hotter loads may be true with smaller bullets, but be safe.  I found plenty of brass and loaded rounds to pull on Gunbroker as 22wcf seems not to be very expensive to collectors.   Bueno suerte

James
  
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Re: Win. 1885 Rifle
Reply #7 - Mar 16th, 2017 at 3:16pm
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I once had a near-twin to that rifle, and, with the help of a man who had a mold that was suitable, shot it quite a bit. It wasn't quite a tack driver, but it was hell on tin cans at 50-100 yards. I never shot very many different loads, so maybe some further work would have helped. If I were you, I'd get some ammo made up and have fun- mine was.
  
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Re: Win. 1885 Rifle
Reply #8 - Mar 17th, 2017 at 12:31am
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Wink
  

Do The Best With What You Got !!!
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HALO68
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Re: Win. 1885 Rifle
Reply #9 - Mar 17th, 2017 at 10:14am
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Thanks everyone for the replies, I am going to keep the .22WCF  the way it is. I am on a waiting lis for ammo from Buffalo Arms. I gave my Son the 38-40 rifle, I thought it was a 38-55, There are a set of 38-55 dies in the box. But the rifle is marked 38-40 on the flat.. on the .22wcf i took off the forearm and the flat piece of steel and found the letters-  *K 3 **wcf (vp). also i got a .Win. 52c .. rimfire rifle.
  
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Re: Win. 1885 Rifle
Reply #10 - Mar 17th, 2017 at 10:23am
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I can load my .22 WCF with Hornet cases and Hornet dies, with the addition of a Lyman "M" Die for cast bullets.  A slightly oversized bullet is in order, of around 45 grains, and the regular Hornet cast bullet loading data found in Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbooks will reproduce the WCF's original black powder ballistics.  I found an original Winchester mould for the caliber, but Accurate or NOE ought to be able to duplicate the size and weight, if not the precise design.

If you are not a reloader, I would recommend you not fire any factory Hornets in your rifle.  The firing pin in an unaltered Low Wall is generally oversized, and the primer may extrude into the firing pin channel, tying up the gun or even bursting.  A custom loading outfit like Old Western Scrounger or Buffalo Arms ought to be able to fix you up with a box of shells.

An original Win SS in .22 WCF with a shootable barrel is not a routine find.  If you need a Low Wall in .22 rimfire, you should be able to get enough for your WCF rifle (from a "Serious Collector") to buy you a really nice one.
  
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Re: Win. 1885 Rifle
Reply #11 - Mar 17th, 2017 at 1:51pm
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Savage's .22 High Power, which also requires bullets of .228, was once pretty popular; are there no jacketed bullets made for it that could be used in a .22WCF?
  
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Re: Win. 1885 Rifle
Reply #12 - Mar 17th, 2017 at 1:53pm
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Bent_Ramrod wrote on Mar 17th, 2017 at 10:23am:
An original Win SS in .22 WCF with a shootable barrel is not a routine find.  If you need a Low Wall in .22 rimfire, you should be able to get enough for your WCF rifle (from a "Serious Collector") to buy you a really nice one.


Good advice; a rebarreled .22WCF becomes a parts gun.
  
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jy3855
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Re: Win. 1885 Rifle
Reply #13 - Mar 17th, 2017 at 2:50pm
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Walt,

I'm glad to hear that you are going to leave the 22 WCF as is.  It is a jewel in its original condition that would lose significant value with any alteration.

Montana Vintage Arms (MVA) makes very nice tang sights that will bolt into the existing threaded holes on the tang. They also make nice reproduction scopes that would look good on your rifle, but the barrel is likely not drilled and tapped for blocks. A tang sight sure helps to tighten up my groups compared to a barrel rear sight.

My Steven's Favorite with an MVA #133 tang sight installed:
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My 25-20 Low Wall with an MVA reproduction 5X scope mounted:
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Re: Win. 1885 Rifle
Reply #14 - Mar 17th, 2017 at 3:18pm
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Very nice rifle
  
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