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mp40man
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DIY Swaging
Mar 11th, 2017 at 7:18am
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I am considering getting into swaging my own bullets. Many reasons, but foremost is me desire not to have to rely on retailers for my bullets. 
I have been reading up on the process, but mostly this info comes from places trying to sell me the equipment, so I am aware that they have a interest in painting it in as good a light as possible.

I am wonder what the thoughts are from people who have done this/do this who have no skin in the game.

I have been casting for years but have no experience with swaging.

Thanks!
  

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RSW
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Re: DIY Swaging
Reply #1 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:18am
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I have been swaging slick bullets for paper patching for years with Richard Corbin press and dies. While he makes first-rate gear and swaging produces excellent bullets, it's more work than casting. I've used cylindrical slugs I have cast from a special mould which then takes a two-step swaging process to make a bullet. My best method is with a bullet that is the shape of my final swage die but slightly under size (Steve Brooks made that mould to my specs). I cast, then swage, producing very consistent bullets but still a lot more work than casting. At 200-300 yards they are no more accurate than cast bullets. 
With Corbin's press I am able to swage 1:20 (tin:lead) with no problems.
  

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frnkeore
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Re: DIY Swaging
Reply #2 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:19am
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Swaging is labor intensive because lead bullet need some way of caring lube.

The only person that I ever knew or knew of, that could make a die that provided lube grooves, swaged bullet in a 3 piece die. They were excellent bullets, too. His name was Bill Bieber and sadly he is no longer with us but, he was a great innovator. If you can do a search in the ASSRA archives, there is a articule about how he did it. But, it would be extremely expensive to have made. I believe the articule was in the 90's sometime.

A close friend of mine, that I got interested in our game, came from High Power and swaged his jacketed bullet. He was Richard Corbins best friend and had them make a 32 die. He tried two ways to get lube into the bullet. First was swage, neural, lube, re-swage. Second was swage, then use a cannalure tool to put grooves in the bullet, lube, re-swage.

I've never hear of a easy way to do it Sad

Frank
  

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waterman
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Re: DIY Swaging
Reply #3 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:45am
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I had some experience years back.  Swaging is more work than casting.  Producing a good bullet for paper patching is simple enough, but the whole process of putting in cannelures or other depressions in the bullet surface to hold lube defeats most of what you accomplish while swaging.

If you are playing the long range 1000 yard game for points, swaging is probably the way to go.  If you are a 200-yard offhand shooter, it is not worth the effort.
  
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ledball
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Re: DIY Swaging
Reply #4 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 4:25pm
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With a cast, lubed bullet, you can swage the bullet into any size or shape you desire. They are nice for expanding or reducing the diameter of the bullet a few thousand of an inch. The down side of swaging is, if you can't make the dies needed " lathe" the project is very expensive. I buy a mould of the weight needed and then swage the lubed bullet into the size or shape I want.  Swaging is another doo-dad to play with, lots of fun.  Ledball


  
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mp40man
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Re: DIY Swaging
Reply #5 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 5:21pm
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Thanks for the input. Some stuff to ponder here. It sounds more labor intensive than casting, even if it produces a better bullet. 
I should have included in my initial post that I am looking to produce PP slicks for a Sharps rifle. Right now I only have a 200 yard range to use. I got very good results with a slick that I am buy-in from BACO but would like to be less dependent.
I am confused about the need for lube in the bullet. I dont use any lube cookie now (swabbing between shots). 
I also thought that bullets were swaged from a led wire. Is this nt the case with the big slicks?
Thanks
  

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Re: DIY Swaging
Reply #6 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 5:24pm
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Consider a 'bump' die - minimal swagging - just enough to make the bullet match the throat.

Lube IN the grooves keeps the form of the grooves consistent as the lube will not compress when the bullet is swagged.
  

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frnkeore
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Re: DIY Swaging
Reply #7 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 6:16pm
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You didn't specify smooth sided bullets. Most Schuetzen shooters use lube grooves (I don't know any that paper patch) so, grooves will be the first thing that comes to mind when we respond to requests for bullets.

Smooth bullets are a "piece of cake" for swaging. With one set of dies, you can make any weight bullet, having the same nose shape. The only thing is that those dies are expensive. But, you'll get a perfect bullet.

Frank
  

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JLouis
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Re: DIY Swaging
Reply #8 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 7:07pm
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We have a fellow in our group who swages / makes his own plainbase bullets from lead wire and they are indeed lubed but without using lube grooves but they are knurled to hold the lube. I know he has well over $2000.00 invested in all of his equipment and he is still limited to about a 1/30 lead wire alloy but the bullets he makes do indeed shoot extremely well for him. If you want slick sided bullets you just don't knurl them and I beleive he bought / had his dies made by Blackburn if I recall correctly and at a lesser cost than others who also specialize in this area of bullet making. He had to go this route due to hand casting no longer being doable due to health reasons so I find it contradictive to being a feat of excessive labor.

I believe this was what the OP was asking about and not just re-forming bullets and unfortunatly the gentleman I am referring too does not visit this forum.

JLouis
« Last Edit: Mar 11th, 2017 at 7:17pm by JLouis »  

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JLouis
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Re: DIY Swaging
Reply #9 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 7:27pm
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Buffalo Arms was selling swagged lube groove bullets but they were not available under 40Cal. and quite exspensive. Gail and Paul Shuttleworth shoot swagged bullets I believe being made by Dave Bennnet but I could have name wrong just call and talk to Gail and she could hook you up with the gentleman who might be able to more clearly answer your questions. Some of our guys have shot them but they are not really on the cheap side that is why the fellow I mentioned earlier bought the equipment and started making his own.

JLouis
  

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Huvius
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Re: DIY Swaging
Reply #10 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:00pm
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I swage for my .450s but as mentioned above, at 200yds you would be hard pressed to see a difference between cast and swaged.
The beauty of swaging a smooth PP bullet is the ability to make any weight (sort of depending on the ogive length) and you can also make different base pins to make deep cups, shallow cups, flat based, whatever you want which is nice if you are thinking of using these bullets in a smokeless load.
You can cut cores from wire but I bet most guys shooting big bores cast their cores.
I use an adjustable core mold which is actually pretty crappy but the core die bleeds off excess lead to produce a very consistant core.
Swaging does produce a nice lookin bullet, even if I can't make them shoot any better than cast...

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Re: DIY Swaging
Reply #11 - Mar 12th, 2017 at 8:53am
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Dave Bennett swages commercial bullets lubed with Lee liquid Alox.  Very accurate and no need to spend $2000 on equipment.  I've shot both .376 and .321 bullets out of my CPA.  In June of 2015, 50 32 caliber bullets cost, including shipping, $26.  E-mail bulletsbybennett@yahoo.com.  Rich
  
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mp40man
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Re: DIY Swaging
Reply #12 - Mar 12th, 2017 at 12:04pm
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First of all, Huvius, those are some good looking patches!
Thanks for all the info all of you posted. All of this helps with my decision making with regard to investing in swaging equipment.
  

Fearlessness for the right is a better thing than fearfulness for peace. 
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