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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) New to me 357mag -.376 groove Hoch rifle (Read 3696 times)
Dales
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New to me 357mag -.376 groove Hoch rifle
Feb 18th, 2017 at 6:19pm
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I just picked up a Hoch actioned rifle , I purchased the rifle because it came with a 25x Lyman scope.
The rifle was advertised as a 357 mag , I had planned to rebarrel but I thought I would play around with it first so I checked the twist and discovered the groove dia. was .376 . The rifle came with one case and one bullet the case is a 357 mag the bullet is .377 . I have not done a chamber cast yet but a 357 max case is a good fit .

Wondering if anyone here has tried breech seating a .376 bullet using a 357 mag or max case to hold the powder?   

Dales
  
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frnkeore
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Re: New to me 357mag -.376 groove Hoch rifle
Reply #1 - Feb 18th, 2017 at 7:15pm
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Sounds like a very interesting rifle. Did a active shooter own it?

You need to see where the rifling starts, a 357 Max case might be able to enter the rifled area.

It would be a enteresting project if it's a 357 Max case length, if not, it can be made that length.

Did you get a breech seater with it?

AND how about pictures!!! Smiley

Frank
  

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Dales
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Re: New to me 357mag -.376 groove Hoch rifle
Reply #2 - Feb 18th, 2017 at 7:40pm
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Dealer sold rifle on consignment so I do not know who the owner was .
No breech seater but the one bullet that came with the rifle looks like it is a gas check design and fits into the 357 case like a heel bullet . 
357 max case fits only into the chamber but I will do a cast before shooting it.

Will try to post pic.
Dale
  
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frnkeore
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Re: New to me 357mag -.376 groove Hoch rifle
Reply #3 - Feb 18th, 2017 at 7:58pm
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WOW, it's setup like a OH rifle but, by the looks of it, it must be at least 20 lb with the scope, hooked plate and the palm rest. A younger guy must have shot it OH.

I wonder if anyone on the forum ever saw it at a match.

My Hoch has a 26" lg, 1.31 diameter barrel, but in 30 cal and with the 25X STS, it does weight 20 lb, actually I think it's 19.6. It's the one pictured on my avatar.

What is the twist rate? Can you get a cleaning rod in from the breech end?

Frank
  

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Dales
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Re: New to me 357mag -.376 groove Hoch rifle
Reply #4 - Feb 18th, 2017 at 8:18pm
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Frank
The barrel is an eight groove 1 in 12 twist.
I do not think a rod will work from the chamber end, with the stock now on it.
I do not think that a thumb hole stock is allowed in ASSRA matches so I am not sure what type of shooting it was built for .  I have trouble with a 12lb rifle these days .

The dealer was in North East pa.(just over the NY border) so it may have seen use in my area as I shoot  in the Western NY Schuetzen Matches I will have to ask around next season . 

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JLouis
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Re: New to me 357mag -.376 groove Hoch rifle
Reply #5 - Feb 18th, 2017 at 8:20pm
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Wow all most appears as something I remember Paul Lambert bringing to one of our ISSA Regionals and not a big man by anyones stretch of imagination but just the opposite. Where was the rifle purchased? 

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Re: New to me 357mag -.376 groove Hoch rifle
Reply #6 - Feb 18th, 2017 at 9:00pm
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Seems like a modernization of the old .38 Extra Long Centerfire.  That had a long case the diameter of the bullet (around 0.379" if I recall) and a heel and outside lubrication on the bullet like a .22 rimfire.

It wasn't thought of as a target cartridge in the old days, but the previous owner of your rifle must have made it work, to some extent, judging from the appearance of the rifle.

Too bad you didn't get the mould that went with it.  However, one of the custom makers should be able to make a copy from your example.
  
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Dales
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Re: New to me 357mag -.376 groove Hoch rifle
Reply #7 - Feb 20th, 2017 at 5:14pm
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I did a chamber cast today chamber is 1.88 long and .379 in dia. longer than any case I know of .
Would there be any harm in breech seating a bullet all the way into the rifling and using a 357 max case that is .300 short of the rifling ?
I have a NEI 300 grain mold I will try . Just have to guess on a starting powder charge .

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frnkeore
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Re: New to me 357mag -.376 groove Hoch rifle
Reply #8 - Feb 20th, 2017 at 5:53pm
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That is very different. There is no reason that you can't use the Max case to shoot it but, you can get some 5.6x50R cases and cut them to what ever length you want.

I would use a case length that is .03 short of the .376 groove diameter. That would make it similar to a standard case length when BSed. I would also chamfer the mouth out to almost the edge of the outside of the brass. My reasoning for that is, so that the powder gases have full contact with the bullet base. I don't know if it would make a difference but, it seems logical to me Smiley

I use 13.5 gr of #9 for my 33 ELCO Max and have tried charges as high as 15 gr, so, I think that would be a very safe starting point for your much larger bore. I think that you'll probably get up to around 15 gr before you'll get 1400+ fps.

What NEI mold do you have for it? I have the old 290 gr spitzer (casts 295 in 20/1), it looks like this:

Frank
  

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Dales
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Re: New to me 357mag -.376 groove Hoch rifle
Reply #9 - Feb 21st, 2017 at 8:47am
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Frank
My mold is marked 375 277  bullet  300gr looks like yours just a little longer . 

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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: New to me 357mag -.376 groove Hoch rifle
Reply #10 - Feb 21st, 2017 at 9:10am
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You might take a look at AccurateMolds on-line catalogue of bullets. He  might have just the one like the ones that came with it, or close enough to have him modify one to fit.


ASSRA rules do not allow thumbhole stocks,   However on at least one occasion that I am aware of,  schuetzen-meisters have permitted it- IF the thumbhole is taped over or plugged so that it is non-functional.
« Last Edit: Feb 21st, 2017 at 5:03pm by QuestionableMaynard8130 »  

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Dales
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Re: New to me 357mag -.376 groove Hoch rifle
Reply #11 - Feb 21st, 2017 at 11:42am
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I found that the bullet that came with the rifle was from a lyman mold 375449 the gas check rebate was used as a heel . If I leave this rifle as chambered I will use it for bench rest  and I do not think a heel bullet would shoot well enough for that . I think I will build a breech seater and try the bullet I have with a 357max case .
If that does not work out I do have 38-55 reamer .

Dale
  
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Re: New to me 357mag -.376 groove Hoch rifle
Reply #12 - Feb 23rd, 2017 at 2:54pm
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I have seen a rifle like the one pictured if not the same one
Tom Manno (deceased) let me borrow it to shoot some matches with it...the chamber was set up to use a GC bullet as a heel bullet...mostly for  OH shooting  IIRC,..was a long time ago
I never did shoot it....was not my cup of tea....HTH
  
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