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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ballard, what is it? (Read 16086 times)
Redsetter
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #30 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 11:47am
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marlinguy wrote on Feb 15th, 2017 at 10:28am:
Maybe I'm thinking of something different than you when I read "shooting gallery"? Shooting galleries are usually composed of a lot of cheap .22 rifles. In the early days they were often .22 pumps, or bolt actions. Single shots might be used very early in the public shooting galleries, but they were usually still very cheap models, not an expensive Ballard with special order set triggers.
And if you're referring to one of the big shooting indoor ranges like Zettler's in NY City, the guns would be owned by the shooters, and not the range. Those guns were far more specialized than Frank's Ballard, and either exotic bench guns,  or offhand style rifles.


Your talent for pointing out the obvious is God-given gift.
  
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JLouis
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #31 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 1:30pm
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Lapua L might well be worth a try as it has a slightly larger bullet diameter.
  

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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #32 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 4:15pm
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JLouis wrote on Feb 15th, 2017 at 1:30pm:
Lapua L might well be worth a try as it has a slightly larger bullet diameter.


I think you need to re-read my post regarding the barrel size.

The bore is .223 not the groove.

Frank
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #33 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 5:37pm
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frnkeore wrote on Feb 15th, 2017 at 11:12am:
I would think that the Ballard #3's had a "nitch" and I'm not sure exactly how they even fit into one, either.

After handling mine, I found that it is very heavy for a 22, it wouldn't really be a woods rifle. With their weight and barrel size, I would expect them to be more of a basic or starter 22 target rifle but, the sights don't say that. 

Maybe they where just one of the "good" early 22's and after MFC came out with their lever action rifles, they didn't see a need for a starter 22 SS and hoped that people would opt for their lever 22's.

Does anyone have any idea of how many #3 might have been made?

Anyway, I've got my DST #3 and I'm very happy with it. After all, I'll only walk from the car to the bench with it Smiley

Frank


They were a bit heavy, and that's one reason the last few years had very short and lightweight barrels. But just no way to get the weight down with the full size action. They were also not a cheap gun, even in the base model #3, so my guess is they weren't aimed toward boys, as some other maker's guns were. They were priced about 3 times what inexpensive boy's rifles sold for, so likely the market was adults in either entry level target shooting, or hunting.
No idea of numbers made, but they are only surpassed in numbers seen today by the #2 in .32 or .38 Long. John Dutcher told me he thought toward the end of Marlin Ballard production that the #3 accounted for more guns made than all other Ballards combined. I'd agree since I see so many #3 Ballard rifles with very high serial numbers in the 35,000-37,000 range. It's rare to even see other models in that serial number range, or even others above 30,000!
  

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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #34 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 7:40pm
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I just checked my other MFC Ballard and I found that the serial numbers are only a few hundered apart. The #3 is 20762 and the #2 is 20377.

I pulled the butt plate off today, no treasures though Sad But now I know it has all matching numbers.

I hope those wrench marks on the tulip, at least means that the barrel will come of easy. I'll peen them back, as best I can and then, maybe turn it rough again so it will look original.

About what was the first MFC numbers?

I haven't seen many #3's in my area. This may be the only one I've seen.

Frank
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #35 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 8:17pm
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frnkeore wrote on Feb 15th, 2017 at 7:40pm:
I just checked my other MFC Ballard and I found that the serial numbers are only a few hundered apart. The #3 is 20762 and the #2 is 20377.

About what was the first MFC numbers?

I haven't seen many #3's in my area. This may be the only one I've seen.

Frank


Unfortunately JM Marlin and MFACo numbers were duplicated! For some odd reason when JM Marlin incorporated in 1881 they just started over from something around zero and used the same serial numbers they used before on Ballards. At one time I had a #6 Schuetzen and a #2 with the same serial number!
The JM Marlin serial numbers started at "1" with an Model 0 in .44 caliber, and I've heard estimates that around 10,000 to 12,000 were made under the JM Marlin marked name. The Marlin Firearms Co. marked receivers go up close to 37,000 but I've never heard of one higher than around 36,800. Nobody knows for sure if the second run of numbers started at zero, or 100. But I've seen 3 digit numbers, so they started at least that low.
Dutcher said that Grant's estimate was 39,000 made, but he thinks the number is 10,000-15,000 less than that. I'm not sure that Grant wasn't closer, and John might only be counting one marking? But even then it wouldn't be correct at 25,000 or so. But another unanswered question is Marlin's habit of using their serial numbers amongst all models made of repeating lever actions since 1881. Some say the Ballards were mixed into that, but I'd disagree since non but a couple dozen were recorded in Marlin records. If they were mixed, they'd be in the records, or there would be holes in groups in the records.
Your 20,000 range numbers with MFACo. marking should put your guns in the mid 1880's range, I'd guess. Which explains why the barrel on your #3 is a bit heavier than those on later guns. The push was to go lighter as production continued. A few of the old heavy barrels did get used late, but it was likely a special order, or just using up parts laying around the factory. I had a concave top #3 that had a heavy barrel, and the round tulip section stuck up above the concave top on the receiver. But it was a 36,000 number, and assembled pretty late.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #36 - Feb 19th, 2017 at 4:28pm
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Schuetzendave wrote on Feb 19th, 2017 at 3:33pm:
Frank:

If it is an antique I can take it across the border without going through an International FFL.

Bring it to Spokane so I can pick it up.

Dave


ALL Marlin or earlier Ballard rifles are antique Dave. The last Marlin Ballard sold in 1891.
  

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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #37 - Feb 19th, 2017 at 4:35pm
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Schuetzendave wrote on Feb 19th, 2017 at 3:33pm:
Frank:

If it is an antique I can take it across the border without going through an International FFL.

Bring it to Spokane so I can pick it up.

Dave


Dave,
That could be worked out but, I would have to have it back within a month or two, with a RKS barrel installed at NO CHARGE Smiley

A win/win deal. You get to touch and handle it and I get a new barrel  Smiley

Frank
  

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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #38 - Feb 19th, 2017 at 9:01pm
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Schuetzendave wrote on Feb 19th, 2017 at 6:57pm:
But I promised Ron I would never give away a RKS barrel.


But, Dave, you won't be giving a barrel away, you'll just be returning a rifle Smiley

Frank
  

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